Unofficial Partner Podcast
Unofficial Partner Podcast
UP474 Wedge Issues: The Jazzy Golfer Joins UP
We met Jasmine Sanders aka The Jazzy Golfer when we held our roundtable event at European Tour HQ at Wentworth during the BMW PGA Championship in 2024.
Now she's come on board as a co-host for Wedge Issues where we overthink the business of golf.
Jasmine is one of the leading golf creators, host of CNN's Living Golf and founder of the Women's Golf Community, where she campaigns for greater inclusion for women and children in to the great game of golf.
Listener questions can be submitted to Jasmine@UnofficialPartner.co.uk
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Hello, welcome to Unofficial Partner of the Sports Business Podcast. I'm Richard Gillis. Today we're talking golf and it's a new look episode of Wedge Issues our Business of Golf series, and we are relaunching it with our new co-host, Jasmine Saunders, also known to many of her thousands of followers as the jazzy golfer. and the host of CNN's Living Golf Program and the founder of the UK's women's golf community. We first met Jasmine when she was a guest on our round table event at the European Tour Headquarters. At Wentworth back in the spring of last year for the B-M-W-P-G-A championships. Since then, we've been trying to think of ways that we could collaborate and the obvious thing to do was for her to come on as co-host of wedge issues. Where she brings a whole wealth of experience from the game and from across her career in the media and her previous career as a business consultant. So if you work in the game and you think, okay, there's a subject that they should be talking about could be someone that's interesting to talk to as a guest. Give us a shout. Uh, there is a new email address, Jasmine at Unofficial Partner dot co.uk. Or you can go via the website, Unofficial Partner dot com. And we'll pick it up from there. But in the meantime, enjoy wedge issues.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Hello.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:morning.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Good morning.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:we made it a last,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I know we did. We did. I'm excited.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:I know, I'm too, we've been, uh, thinking about this for a long time, haven't we?
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yes. Many a discussion. Many a planning document, and now we're finally here. Sure.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:and we are looking, the reason for directing us towards. A single sport just allows us, or allows me at least to then it gives us a bit of permission to go deeper into a particular sport. And each sport is different. I always think.'cause we cover lots of different sports on artificial partner and one of the things is that you sort of bump into similar. There's a sort of 80 20 rule where there's a lot of similar conversations that take place, whether it's about fan data or, you know, media sales rights, or whether it's sponsorship questions, Whether it's about the product itself on the, the format and all of these things are, are, are discussed across the piece, but then when you go into golf. You get into different territory, different questions, and you become a bit more specific. So I'm looking forward to that bit of it. And obviously we met when you came in onto our round table at the BMW at Wentworth, which again, sort of Kicked off the idea that actually, well, there's something here that we should maybe develop further. And so I'm really thrilled that you've, joined us on the, on the journey and it is a bit of a journey of discovery for us.'cause it's, it's something that I've been wanting to do for ages. I've got like a bit of a backstory in the golf business because I used to do what was the KPMG golf business. Thing. It was a big event in the industry, which then got taken over by uh, IMG. And then they put, and it was HSBC Golf Business Forum. So we did a couple of those in terms of the content. And I was very aware that it was a whole world that something like Unofficial Partner didn't really touch or didn't talk to. And then I sort of got into looking at what the, how the golf business is serviced by media. That he encouraged me further to think actually. Well, I think there's a whole load of things here that we could talk about that aren't being talked about or under, under this sort of disgusted. So that's my bit of it. Let's talk about what, what you see.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I guess from my side, there are so many brilliant golf podcasts out there that are covering topics. I think in the content space, a lot of the insight into, you know, the life on tour of the pro,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:heavily on talking about tournaments, tournament results. obviously a little bit on, on Liv and I guess. I really do believe there is a bit of a gap in the market for a podcast like this to talk about, as you say, the business behind all of it, because it is absolutely fascinating. obviously golf having so many different facets to it, all of the things that people are talking about in golf now and and how that relates to golf as a business, I think will be just a really interesting set of discussions to have.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah, there's a, there's a whole bit of it about, there's a sort of golf industry, which again. Uh, like I always get to tractors
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:and Yeah. Yeah. Which is niche. And I'm not gonna, we're not gonna talk about tractors or there's, you know, grass or there's, the whole sort of stuff. Pesto. Oh yeah. Let's talk about, yeah, let's get into pesticides. Why not? And you get to travel and tourism all these things. There's sort of areas that don't apply to other sports, which again, I like you. I look at the podcast and I listen to a few of the golf podcasts they're all of a type. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, What I'm looking forward to doing, I might e, we might even look at the golf podcast market as a, an idea
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:interesting.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:just to sort of pick that apart and see what they're doing and who's making money there and how that's working. Because I think there's a whole sort of thing about you've got this creator world and we've had Rick Shields on, and obviously you are from, you know, people will define you in that sense in terms of you built this brand in, in that. Space. And I think it's interesting just to sort of step aside from that and look at it in its own right. And you know, it'd be really interesting to know from you what the. Pros and cons of that life. I like because it's a sort of weird life in some ways, and it's a way, it's just evolved. It has, it wasn't, you know, a thing. And then it was a really big thing. And now you've got this space where traditional media, like, you know, sky, NBC and the tours, they're all dancing around. What to do with people like you and the creator, stuff that you are generating.'cause you've got this, you know, the audience question about what the audience want and what the creators are supplying that the players and the tournaments aren't or can't do. So I think that's a bit, I think that'd be quite interesting to get into. Should we explain what you, where you've, how you got into that?
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I, I mean, I had a very non-traditional entry into the, I guess, golfing sphere. I, I never intended to be here. I'll, I'll start out by
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:None of us did.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Uh, yeah, very true. Very true. Uh, I hate that cliche of, you know, I, I didn't find golf. It found me, but in some ways that is exactly what happened. Cliche or not. I mean, I, I did economics at university. I. I worked in finance. I was at one of the big four in consulting, and before that did a bit of kind of currency management and treasury. So, you know, I'm, I'm a bit of a treasurer really by trade, which is a bit unusual. And whilst working at one of the big four, I, I ended up picking up golf on a family holiday. And I absolutely fell in love with it. I mean, I, I've. I played sports my entire life, but never golf. I think, unfortunately, for some of the reasons why young women and uh, or women and young girls, don't get into it today. But I, I hit one amazing shot. It went exactly where I wanted it to go, 10 foot or so from the pin. And that was it. Like I was absolutely hooked. And, and I think probably everyone who's played golf can relate to that one absolute wonder feeling. You just, you just get hooked. So came back to the uk. Ended up you know, dedicating myself to making this my new hobby because I was, I was all in, uh, went to my local golf club and, uh, I was walking past the, I guess, outside drinking area to get to the nets and the practice area and. I was sung at, I was whistled at
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Oh my God.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:it was nice to have some young fresh meat at the golf course. And
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:God.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:me
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:I.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:it was just a real moment of realization. And I was like, wow, I've played so many sports. Never have I ever felt as much of an outsider as a woman, as I, as I do right in this moment. But at the same time, I. I don't think I'd ever fallen in love with the sport in the way that I had kind of fallen in love and got hit with golf. So it was a real strange situation for me that I felt like the culture just didn't match up with the sport. And the more I became immersed in that as a woman who has a job, which to, to some golf, uh, institutions and clubs seems like a very foreign concept. I.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Iv.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah, I, I couldn't turn up to the, the Tuesday Ladies Day competition. I couldn't play on a Saturday because it was reserved for men's. And so the more I found this.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Wow.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I just thought it was quite staggering and I didn't quite realize how much work there was to do to make golf and inclusive sport for women. So, long story short, I ended up speaking out about that on social media, created a little, the jazzy golfer, uh, Instagram page where I was documenting my journey whilst also showing that it was a fun sport for women and girls to play, especially. And it just kind of steamrolled from there. I was. Asked to write some thought pieces. I did some presentations for golf clubs on, you know, how to make themselves more inclusive and welcoming for women. I then was approached by what was then the men's European tour and the ladies European tour to, to do a bit of presenting, which I had no experience in whatsoever. I, I went for it because why not? And then that kind of kicked off the presenting side of my career on top of all of the, I guess, campaigning. And, you know, as of, uh, September, 2023 I was the host of, uh, CNN's Living Golf Show. And I should also add. The three years ago I founded the UK Women's Golf Community which is the largest UK only women's golf group in the uk. We've just hit 11,000 members,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Wow.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:it's, it's a, I guess, a national campaign. on retention of, of women in golf and yeah, it's just going from strength to strength. So I guess I wear many hats in the golfing industry now, presenter, obviously you know, exist in the content creation space. Quite heavily involved on the campaigning space as well. I do consulting on that topic. I host panels for, you know, governmental initiatives, talking about women's investment. What else? The list is very long,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Here is a long list.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:founder of the women's golf community. I'm, I'm an expert or I like to see myself as an expert on I guess women's retention inclusivity in, in golf clubs. Mm-hmm.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:what's the, I never, no. You see sort of data around that question and it varies and it is a sort of strong disparity between the UK and other, say for example, European countries I've just come back from, from Sweden, you know, and the number there I think is considerably higher than it is here in terms of just the percentage of women who
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yep.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:up a golf club's membership. Well, I mean, I've seen, again, I think it was, can't remember who used to do it. KPMG might have done it themselves about it was always hovering between five and 10%, and that feels anecdotally, probably in the right space, but I don't know what the RN a's number is.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:So at the moment it's estimated that approximately 14, 13, 14% of golf club memberships held in the uk are held by women. It's also estimated, according to some studies, that only 1% of that 14% are aged under 50.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Wow.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:So I, I, I will say however the RNA I believe did a, a mass participation study along with I think a few kind of, sporting insights perhaps, and, and some think tanks. And it appeared that actually 30 approximately percent of OnCourse players, nine holes and 18 holes were women. 30% is good. Obviously not good enough in my opinion. But you have to, I think, look at the disparity between that 30% and the 14%,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Mm.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:of women who are actually playing golf, and then the 14% who are actually becoming members. I mean, I wrote an article not too long ago on LinkedIn. About how I actually don't believe that the current golf club membership model is fit for purpose for women. So I think, I think there's an issue with the product of, of golf clubs, uh, golf club memberships which is not fit for purpose for, for women in, in, you know, 2025. I think there's still a lot of work to do on golfers as an image or its image,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:as a product as a whole, I think. I think I said this in the, in the m BMW episode actually, that I, I really do believe that, you know, if you, if you go to the driving range regularly and that's all your involvement is with golf, for me, that's, you're still a golfer. If you, if you
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:playing mini golf, if you play foot golf, if you play a short course every now and again, I. a golfer, and I think perhaps golf needs to do a better job of marketing itself. That it has so many different products to meet, all different kinds of abilities, all different kinds of monetary constraints. And it isn't just that, you know, four and a half, I mean, realistically, five-ish hours out
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:playing 18 holes.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah, no, it's a really interesting question.'cause we had Ben Sharp on the chief executive of Callaway and we were talking about this question and so, and we get this a lot as you can imagine, that that, and there's a few things in what you talked about that I. Are very central, sort of Unofficial Partner type topic. So one of them is the link between the entertainment product of on television and participation and how strong or weak that is. And again, you know, who's watching women's golf is a question and we, we've just had Sky on who, uh, got a particular angle into that and it's, it's a, Complex question. You've also got that question about the sort of attribution or the top of the funnel products as people might call them, in terms of the like mini golf. And I go around in the circles about what is a golfer, for example. And, but I absolutely agree with you in terms of the membership question.'cause I think it's not fit for purpose generally it's, it absolutely isn't for women, but it's also. Just like a sort of weird 19th century thing where we are still laboring under the, you know, a lot, most golf clubs following a particular format and the way in which they deal with their members and all of these things, I think is sort of fairly archaic. But we've also had the covid moment where golf. Had a boom because it was sort of, it was one of the things we were allowed to do. We were about outside and, you know, social distancing.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I, I think we, I. I feel like the golf industry could have done a better job of reacting to that covid boom. And,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Mm.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:some golf clubs are still doing very, very well and thriving. But I think what we're seeing now is that perhaps, in my opinion, a little bit of complacency that hey, they, they came here so they're gonna stay here. And actually not realizing that all of the sports that they are now allowed to do again, that they were doing before they. Might have, and, and in many an example, have gone back to, because the golf club wasn't necessarily offering anything different or, or new. And, and I think that's why we're seeing memberships guess membership numbers affected now because the golf product didn't change, the membership offering didn't didn't evolve. And I, and I think, yeah, I think they, they were a bit complacent.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:And also they just put their prices up.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yes.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:So, you know, it was like a if in doubt, that bit about the sort of entertainment side of it. so things like TGL is the case study, ur, and you know, you've got this. Product and everyone can see what they're trying to do. And you know, I've got a view on it. I watched it for about, you know, for a bit and I thought, well this, it wasn't for me. And you get to the point you, there's almost like on a four or five times a day, it's like, oh, I'm not the target audience. These things. I didn't rate it as a, as a product particularly, and it'll be really interesting to see what they do with it and how it'll vol evolve. I think the absence of, you know, the people we've talked about, women and the absence of creators and all of that thing was, was an interesting decision and I think it's, I look at TGL and live to an extent. I think they're more interesting because they exist than they are in in of themselves. I think there's actually,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Is
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:you can,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:factor though, do you think?
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:yeah, I think it's definitely, there's novelty, there's money that wants to, you know,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:go somewhere.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:go somewhere and be put somewhere. And there's also a sort of a game plan and across sport, which look, you could look at live golf and TGL, and they've got. Teams, you know, looking at almost designed for, for the clip economy and for TikTok and YouTube shorts and Instagram reels first before television almost. And they'll try and establish very quickly a footprint. Then they'll try and monetize it via sponsorship and, TV media rights. and that's the game plan across lots of different sports. and they'll tweak the product, I'm sure. And you know, there's sort of endless arguments about, you know, in TGL, the tech and the, you know, that does the screen work and all that, which I think is a sort of sideshow.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Hmm.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:But I'm interested in, in what the money is trying to do and if that is now in 2025, what they think a sports entertainment product is. From a a narrow business perspective, there's, okay, we just need, we need this to work'cause we wanna return on our investment. And if you're a private equity business, if you are John Henry, or if you are someone who's plowed a load of money into, or just bought a load of money in, into the team, for example, it's in your interest to try and build value in that franchise. And you get to these other really quite difficult questions about how you sell a team, a new team brand. And we're seeing that across cricket football. Loads of different entrant entry points. If everyone is building a team, there's only so many fan, you know, fan teams I wanna support. And, you know, I'm scarred by my Spurs fandom, so I'm not, you know, I'm not up for a massive go at another team. But there's, there's, and there all seem to be, it gets to an audience question about who are they actually targeting? Who do they want to watch? Who are they expecting to watch? When you're looking at the American market, you can see the sort of excitement around golf is quite often in that sort of golf bro, Baal sort of area. You lay betting into that and you start to say, okay, well I can see that being part of the business model as well. See there's a load of, you know, it's a jigsaw,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Not
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:but
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:friendly though.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:it's not very female friendly. But again, it's, the question is why that is, and I suppose if they thought that there was a large. Women's audience to be had. They would skew it in that direction, but they don't, that's their assumption, isn't it? You can see it in the way in which where they've put their money, both Liv and TGL? Yeah. Yeah. Or they. Or they. They've made a, decision based on what they see in terms of what the feedback is, in terms of who's watching golf. I don't, you know, one of the, one of the questions is, would A TGL for women, would that work or should it be a mixed event? I think the same questions apply, you know, across, the majors, you know, or, certainly the Olympics mucked up in.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I mean we, we, I think 2028, is that right? 2028. We're gonna start having mixed, uh, mixed events, uh, at the Olympics in golf.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yes. Yeah. So it's LA isn't it?
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:that's it. I mean, we, we did have, I think maybe four years ago, fi maybe three. We did have quite a lot of mixed events on the calendars. I mean, golf sixes. Was growing. Exponentially. It was held at Centurion and it was, it was mixed teams. It was you know, country based, uh, teams and it, it did so, so well. And then they moved it to Portugal and I think it was there for a year, and then it, it, it never kind of came back. We've got the Scandy, uh, Scandi Mixed, or Scandi Invitational, which is hosted by Annika and was hosted by Henrik. And, and that was. You know, that was quite game changing, especially when we had Lynn Grant win. That was a, an event that was men playing against women, uh, rather than say the World Invitational. Which also now no longer exists to my knowledge, was
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:And what, who owned the Gulf Sixes?
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:uh, good question. Uh.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:it, was it a top, was it a Europe? A sort of Right. Okay.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I, I, I don't know further than that but yeah, world Invitational we had which was supported by Hors modest an ISPS hand that was held at gal. And, and that was good. That was quite a nice format whereby it was, uh, mixed, mixed, uh, four balls or mixed three balls. But the men and women were not competing against each other. They had two separate prize pots. But because the groups were mixed, anyone coming to watch. Would subsequently watch men's and women's golf
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Right.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:the same time. And I think the, that was quite popular with the pros themselves that, that format. I'm trying to think of others. I, I might have missed a one or two, but but yeah, it was a shame. I feel like golf sixes was, I. Perhaps ahead of its time. It had a shot clock on the tee. You know, it had a mascot that kids really kind of bought into. There was a lot of, you know, noise music cannons on the, on the tees. All sorts of kind of innovative things. I think some of the pros were wearing a you know, heart rate monitor, so you could see that in real time. and it, it's almost, it almost needed to, to happen, you know, a few years ago and develop into 2025 rather than. when it did, but
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Well, the sort of thing, it's the sort of thing that, you know, again, the, the, the Olympic question again, I remember this tenure, you know, when the golf bidding thing was happening, it got so political and it defaulted to, stroke play 18 holes, whatever, and. It felt like that sort of innovation should have been thrown at Gey. That was the moment,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:but having said that, you've now got, you know, people investing in golf. I did think that Liv Golf, I think Liv Golf, I, at the event yesterday, I sort of. Or the Cheekly, I wasn't involved, but I was in the audience and they had this, irresistible thing where you can ask a question on the Slido thing and I, and it comes up on, stay up on the screen. There was, uh, Danny Townsend from s sovereign Wealth, not, so, it's not PIF, but it was a cheeky question and he, I asked him what the would was live golf, a mistake given Saudi's broader objectives that it's, you know, in terms of people's perception of the, of the country and the society not involving women in Liv was a really weird miss I think. Now I don't know whether, you know, I, that's a separate question to whether it would be more interesting or a success or not, but I think actually from a perspective that it wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a purely financial move that they did it, that, that not having women, you know, front and center of the, of the thing was a strange choice. That said, again, it gets back to the same TGL thing is, is whether or not actually the evidence suggests that there is enough interest. To warrant that sort of investment in a women's golf. I just dunno the answer to those questions. So, but someone made a decision somewhere based on what they're seeing in front of.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I mean, it's, it's, it's a good question, I think. I guess the question I would, I would pose back is how do you generate that interest if there's no investment? And, and, and that's the thing, right? You know, men's sports didn't just pop out of nowhere with full, full stadiums and full fan bases. You know, there was a lot of, in investment in the, in the first instance in, in the infrastructure, in the sport, in the equipment, et cetera, facilities, and, and I feel like. To have that exact same opportunity that men's sports has been given.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:I completely agree. I, but I, if I'm an, if it's a private investment company, you know, if, if I'm not, if I'm a investor, It's a narrow question of I'm gonna put this money in and I want the return from it. It's not my job to grow the game. It's not my job to do that work. It's the governing body, it's the R a's job, and even to the extent where I can see why TGL don't, haven't done that because they think they're, they're. Trying to, you know, narrow the risk of it. And the, uh, and a mixed event might be a bigger risk than a single, than, than the just having the PGA tour players there. I don't know, I'm just putting forward that argument because I think that I agree with you about the, you know, the. The women's sport question more generally, it does need investment, but if I'm an investor, then I'm just interested in the money. I'm not particularly interested in growing the category because why would I, I want to be out in three or five years and I want a return on that. I'm not gonna do the long-term development work that I completely agree needs to be done, but it's not on me to do it.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:No. And fair challenge, I guess, you know, women's sport as a whole isn't, isn't a, a charity. I, I get that, but I, I would say it is one of the fastest growing segments. In the market. And actually, if you are looking at investment opportunity and potential now is absolutely the time to get on board. I mean, we've seen what happened with women's football. We've seen what's been happening in women's rugby. And I, I think it's only a matter of time that we, we, you know, we see some real kind of movements forward in, in women's golf. So.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:I completely agree. I mean, one of the things is, so another bit of the, equation that we are looking to sort of talk about, which I really am interested in, is. Where you've got this sort of perception of golf and let's talk about fashion,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Mm-hmm.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:which is not my strong suit, but I do think There is really interesting stuff happening in golf and we, and, and at our event we had you know, the CEO from Lin Lindeberg
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yep.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:and that they're punting the house on golf. And funny enough, I was just coming through Stockholm Airport and you know, there's a very nice Lindeberg golf shop in there. And peak performance, again, a Swedish brand. They're again putting golf front and center. Manners. You've got Melbourne. These are new, really exciting brands that are popping up and the question is why? And you get back to the money. Question is, will they see money there? So that, what do you think of that world, that bit of the equation.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:fascinating. I mean, golf has had such a boom in the fashion space where now it's not just about performance apparel, it's also about, you know, fashion is, is almost part of the experience and,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:is part of the experience. I mean, obviously I, I wear. Jazzy leggins, uh, on the golf course. That's my kind of signature and how, how people end up recognizing me. And, you know, for me, I guess that's my fashion statement. And I, and I think it's, it's evolving from I guess the, from p uh, rigid, almost very formal attire. I mean, ultimately, in my opinion. Golf is first and foremost a sport, and we have to dress accordingly. I
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:a apart from cricket, which I think is slightly different. What other sport do you know where men wear proper trousers to play it? It, it's quite, it is quite in and are forced to wear full length trousers in like 40 degree heat. So I think, I think fashion is changing from a, uh. What's the, what's the word?
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Well, it's very rules based. You know, the whole golf attire is based on going back to golf club rules, isn't it?
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:It's changing from a practicality perspective, but I think the, the fashion movement is, is incredible. It's becoming like golf is becoming cool And, and some of the fashion stuff we're seeing is like really high-end, overpriced,
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:opportunist type uh, you know, marketing that we're seeing. But I think what Manners and Melbourne are doing is they're creating a really strong brand story and they're going completely against the grain and doing it so differently. And Jay Linberg as well, doing it so differently. to many of the other brands I mean, uh, manners, for example, that they've just stocked in Herod's. I
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Hmm.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:pretty, that's pretty cool. They were recently featured in, in Forbes magazine talking about their brand story. I mean, one thing they do very, very well is sell the story. The
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Hmm.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:it's almost the, the community behind the brand that is as important and the story and the kind of people that are wearing their clothing I think really sells it for people. And you know, that's the reason why we're, we're kind of going from strength to strength. I mean, Melbourne for example, they are really I guess mixing things up in the US especially. But you know, they've got, they've got Charlie Hu. They have completely embraced her, her quirks, her personalities, even the smoking, you know, they have completely, you know, made her so approachable and relatable whilst also being effortlessly stylish and powerful.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:It is interesting, you know, so Jason Day, Jason day's, trousers are now a sort of story where PE you know, gets referenced, but it's, and there are just. It's like, you know, they're baggier than normal and you sort of think this is not a huge outrage. You know, people, people get properly crossed, you know, it's, it's really strange. when you sort try and think of the sort of psychology of it, it's something to do with a sort of imagined past. They're trying to cling to, I don't know, you know, in terms of what actually they want the dress to represent. So I imagine it's great fun if you are, you know, one of the new. Brands'cause you can sort of play with that. I mean, I, I, I really like the ad, you know, the Adidas original stuff that's just sort of come out over the last couple of months is, is it's really interesting. Not, you know, the clothes are interesting, but also the story as you say. And it's good that they're doing it. And we've had, you know, Nike go in and outta golf at various times but this feels slightly different'cause it does feel like it's really targeting. A very young, affluent, you know, fashionable.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:I think it's, it's that millennial, that new millennial audience that that golf has seen grow. think is, is really the target for a lot of this clothing. But, but also I think, especially when you think about, you know, uh, Adidas originals, when you think about some of the pieces that maybe manners have, I think that some of them are quite effortlessly timeless.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:and, and, and it, you know, you'd love a pair of their trousers. think they do appeal
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:I could be their sort of reverse ambassador, whatever, whatever, whatever the opposite of an ambassador is you make, you know, if you want to crash the company, give me a pair of your trousers. I think would be a, you know, the sort of suitable line.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:See you in a pair of like checkered green trousers on the golf course.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah, yeah. No, I'm all over that. Skin tight lime green something. You know, an Italian waiter might pull off. Just give them to me and I will, you know, I'll put you outta business before lunchtime. There's a so we should say we've got a, a, some interesting ones lined up. So we've got Suzanne Petterson,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yes. Our next episode is, uh, Suzanne Peton. For those who aren't familiar, she is, uh, I guess LPGA and LET. Legend, Solheim Cup Captain sunk the, the winning putt on the final day, on the final hole. In the final moment at Glen Eagles. I was lucky enough to be there. And, uh, she has recently launched a women's only, uh, agency called Voxer. Which is a Latin for voice. And so we spoke to her about her, Mission and vision for the, for the Voxer agency. Why now? A little bit of, I guess, her thoughts on the women's industry. We spoke about whether sex sells. Unfortunately we're talking about women and, and that's something that is, uh, uh, on us, whether we like it or not. And, uh, and, and covered, uh, a few extra bits and bobs as well.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:So she, we, we've got that as the next episode and then we're at the open. Which we're excited about and we're working with Callaway at the Open. There's a an event happening there, which we'll talk more about closer to the time. I'm talking about the men's open there at Royal Portas Rush in Northern Ireland, and then we've got other events that we're looking at. Through the year. If people, if the, you know, people in the audience who work in, in golf or on the brand side or on the media side are interested in the golf business conversation, we'd love to, to get in touch, we've got, we've got an email. We, ja this is where no expense spared. Uh, Jasmine, we've got,
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:yes.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:It's Jasmine at Unofficial Partner dot co uk
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yep.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:and. any questions again, the audience have, you've got questions about topics that you think we should be covering? It could be anything to do with golf and the business of golf. Get in touch. Give us a shout. You can send us a voice note. So any questions, any sort of thoughts on. Where we might go and what the sorts of things that we could talk about, sorts of guests that might be interesting to, to bring on. And, uh, I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's gonna be great.
jasmine_1_04-30-2025_091908:Yeah, I'm, I'm really excited. I think we've, we've got many a topic to, to talk about and we will not run out, but we'd absolutely love to hear your suggestions, thoughts, ideas. So please don't hesitate to send them through to, to me and I'll, I'll go through them and, and Rich and I will, pick them out and, and discuss them.
richard_1_04-30-2025_091908:Fantastic. Right. Till the next time. And Suzanne Penon, we will, see you soon on the next episode of Wedge Issues.