Unofficial Partner Podcast
Unofficial Partner Podcast
UP501 What happens at Sportel, stays at Sportel
SPORTEL Monaco takes place at the Grimaldi Forum in Monaco October 20th to 22nd. It's been the world's leading sports content media rights and technology convention for more than 30 years.
This episode asks, what will people be talking about as they network and do deals that will shape the sports business in 2026?
Joining Richard are:
Imran Yusuf - Editor of Sport Business Media (attending his fifth Sportel)
Ken Kerschbaumer - Editorial Director for Sports Video Group US and SVG Europe (17-year Sportel veteran)
Nick Volante - Sportel commercial consultant (15 years with the event)
NOTE - Regular ticket price period ends on September 11th, so to take advantage of the lower price, go to the SPORTEL Monaco website via this link now .
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Hello there. Welcome to Unofficial Partners, Richard Gillis. Today we've got a special sport L edition. If you work in sport, you'll know what Sport L is, but for those who don't. sport. El Monaco is the world's leading sports content, media rights and technology convention. It's where people in sport and media have been convening for about 30 years or so. The main focus on the market side, so there's a marketplace, a lot of deals get done and a lot of networking happens as well as very good. Conference event, which we will be appearing on, I think we kick off on the Monday morning with a live edition of Unofficial Partner, which is what we did last year. Went down very well so to join this global community of decision makers, those are always good people to be in a, in a room with marketing professionals, broadcasters, athletes, and other key players of the sports business industry. You should head down to Monaco. if you are quick and you're listening to this on publication day, which obviously you should be doing on the 9th of September, I think on the 11th of September, the price bumps up. So the early birds, the end of the early bird ticketing. If not, we'll see you down in Monaco 20th to the 22nd of October in the usual place. I will see you in the Irish bar, no doubt. Joining me, we have Imran Yusuf, editor of Sport Business Media, Ken Kirschbaumer, editorial director of the Sports Video Group. In the US and SVG Europe and Nick Valante, sport representative of a 15 year veteran of the events. There's nothing Nick doesn't know about the behind the scenes of sport, how the whole thing works, and that's what we get into a little bit as well as. We ask the question what people are gonna be talking about on the way in as you fly into Monaco. I never quite know where Monaco is in terms of its geography. It's special. Is it a special place? I can't remember. France, is it? It's not France, but it is France full of rich people in flash CARSs, and podcasters full of podcasters. So we will be talking about. The event itself, but also looking at all the big stories that will be, uh, taking up a lot of the conversation, corridor conversation. I always love that phrase, I'm always in the corridors. So yeah, hope you enjoy it. And if you're gonna go, I would, uh, get a ticket fairly sharpish.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:by the way, I'm liking Ken, your Tottenham backdrop
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:We got everybody else took an arsenal. It's a bit of a, EPL celebration, but yeah, sorry,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:the
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:e.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:so is Tottenham is their horizontal for a reason?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:It was the first one, so I kind of figured I'd kind of put it across the banner. But I got a, I got a bunch, I even got some Indian cricket, so
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah. Yeah.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:collect'em from.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:saying, I, I think Iran's backdrop is, there's a sort of, I can see where they're going, I can see the creative, the sort of aesthetic direction that they're going, but there's a hint of, wardrobe at, at JD Sports.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Yeah, the dis, the discarded ones that are gonna be checked out that weren't, weren't able to be sold.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Oh yeah. And you know, you can have, let's not knock the wardrobe of JD Sport. You can have a lot of fun there.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:That's, that's for sure.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:you could argue it's the center of the sports business there. Okay, so let's first of all, I'm gonna get you to introduce yourself'cause we've got a lot of voices on this podcast. We're gonna obviously talk this about Sport L and we're gonna be talking about what, what is happening this year and, we'll, I'll set that up in a minute. But Imran just kick us off and we'll just go around. So it'll be Imran. Ken Nick.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Hiran Yusuf, editor of Sport Business Media.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:And I am Ken Kirschbaumer, editorial director for the Sports Video Group in the US and SVG Europe and Europe.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:And I am, uh, Nick Ante representing Sport out today.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Perfect. Right, nick, we should talk about what's happening this year. Give us a, just set it up because I, I, in my mind, this podcast is being listened to. People will be tuning in as they arrive at the airport, wherever they're coming, and their destination is Monaco. They're gonna end up at Sport L and. What this conversation is gonna be about. Well, what they gonna be thinking about, worrying about? All of those things. And we'll get onto all that specific stuff, but just set it up for us in terms of this year's sport el and you know, points of difference. And
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:absolutely. I mean, I think ultimately. I've been around about 15 years for part of the sports out team and sports out Monaco has been around about 35 years. and I can't speak for the 35 years, but for, for myself, you know, it seems like every people ask me, so what should we expect this year for sports out each year? And, and ultimately I seem to keep saying the same thing. I keep saying, well, it looks like there's gonna be a lot more change. And I know that's, uh, that's kind of a, a bit of a boring answer because it's an easy one, but it, but it's true. And, and I think ultimately the industry is. Is constantly changing and, and so Sport L and sport L community therefore is also changing. You know, I was actually thinking the other day is gone before this call, you know, thinking, you know, what, what was the industry like when I started 15, 20 years ago when Sport L started 35 years ago? We're talking about linear, linear rights deal. Rules. And now, you know, I was actually listening to a podcast this week. We're talking about media rights and talking about how, you know, Syria are, and NHL are doing a partnership, who would've thought Syria r and NHL would be doing a partnership? also, again, listening to about, you know, how Bunes Liga and how they're doing there. Their media rights strategy in the UK recently, how they're structuring that now. So there's just, there's just so much change which is great. Obviously there's, there's lots of challenges in the industry and, and that's why we're all evolving and having to change.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:I think in regards to sport health specifically, you know. We, we've known that people have been saying, Hey, we need more meeting spaces. So things like, you know, new lounges, a new sports bar, which should be fun.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Hey.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:premium exhibitor suites, which we've, we've had requests for and, and conference programs that are all relevant. but I think what's most important, just always just providing the, the best environment, for the sport, our community to come together, do business, share ideas, and, and have a bit of fun.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:So Ken, when was your first sport?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Probably, I wanna say 2008, probably 2007, so roughly. But yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Nick's framing of that is right in terms of we talk about sport health, but really it's a proxy for the marketplace, isn't it?'cause it was, and there is that sort of the simplicity, and I'm sure people that were working in the rights market back then would say it wasn't as simple as you are making out. The way in which you set up that, the way in which. The market has changed. I mean, I always think of sport L as being, the sort of cliched view is this is where deals were done. And you you'd go onto boats and you'd go into restaurants in, you know, in the vicinity. And there were sort of war stories around the industry of what deals were done down in Monaco.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Now it's much more complicated. It's trying to work out who's doing what to who. Is is a sort of PhD, isn't it?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, it is more complicated, but I think it's a much better environment, right? So if you go back to, to my first 2006, 2007, so everybody's focused on how do we get consumers to go to HGTV, buy an HGTV TV set. To your point, it was all very much, if, if you struck one big deal in, in the uk, you could cover all, you know, you were set for the year. one big deal in the US you were set for the year. Now obviously the fraction, the fractioning off of rights. I mean, look at the way the NFL approaches their rights. Gives a lot more people an opportunity, right? Sorry, uh, distributors an opportunity to get into the game, right? The streamers, I mean, and, and the leagues and the federations wanna reach all of them'cause they don't wanna leave any consumers out. So I think it's a really, what I love about this show is these deals are more complicated, but there's so much more freedom for both sides of the equation to kind of hit the deal that works best for them. Right. And I think the biggest challenge for everybody right now, I'm doing a panel at IBC. In September about, uh, streaming. The biggest challenge right now for the streamers is concurrency. You know, it's 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you only had one. You had one channel, one game. Now you are doing an app with has 40, 50, 60 concurrent sporting events at the same time and you're the organization trying to create all this content, stream it. So it's really a fascinating change and what, what I love about sports, how the last, especially the last seven years, eight years, technology's becoming much more a part of the equation and helping people solve those problems. So it's a really nice opportunity to learn about the technology. the great thing is they're not getting into the, the weeds of bit rates and frame rates. They're really kind of focused on how this technology will help you grow your business, which is, you know, really unique in the industry.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:is a long time since I've heard HDTV,'cause that was, again, I remember. It makes me think about what the great missteps were or which ones were overplayed, or, you know, people always land on vr, you know, we're still waiting for VR to, to sort of make its mark. And that's been
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:we've been talking about that for, it feels like ages,
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, yeah. But
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:and then there's three DI remember, do you remember we had the 3D and everyone was
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:I was big enough tv. Sure. Yep. Which was amazing. In the truck, the production truck, it was amazing. But by the time it got compressed and got to the home, it all fell apart. But, uh, you know, here's an example. Last night, so I finally got a HDR R TV set, a big 77 inch TV set, and I was watching the US Open last night on ESPN, and they also stream it on Disney Plus. the Disney plus stream is at HDR R 10, which is HDR format. The Disney, the ESPN app does not have HDR yet, so it was even within organizations themselves. I was like, you know, I switched. I'm like, wait, the color's a lot better on this one. And I looked at my TV and it was like HDR 10, whereas the s PN app, which they just relaunched last week, didn't have the H. So there's so much, even with internally within our own companies, they have so many opportunities to ways to get the content out. They aren't even all quite on the same page yet, so it's just fascinating to see how all this stuff is moving so quickly and so rapidly.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah. Iram, what's your sort of thoughts on sport then and now?
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Yeah. It definitely has changed and I think that change sort of mirrors. The way the industry itself has evolved. I mean, 20 years ago, I wasn't around. This will be my fifth sport, tell Monaco. But the people I, I hear from, as you say, with, with lots of war stories in the locker, they say it was much more transactional. It was deal making. It was old school negotiation tactics. Someone even I spoke to this week said, oh, it was like a boiler room back in the day. And they said it was, you know, there was, it was like wild west.'cause not a lot of the rights were centralized as well. You didn't have the centralization, for example, of uafa rights, UAFA, national team rights. Now that's all central. So more of a wheeling dealing sense to sport. Tell from what I hear. And you know, I think if you didn't come home with a deal in the bag, it had not been a good sport tell. I don't think people have that pressure anymore. Discussions are more complex, more long term. The way tenders are, it's all more orderly. I think generally there's just a lot more compliance in place and for some that's a good thing. For some, maybe they miss the days of the Wild West. Having said that, you know, you'll speak to people and they'll still say they strike a deal or they, or they or they, you know, organize a meeting where a deal comes out of it pretty quickly. Someone I spoke to this week said last year he signed a deal worth multiple millions out of an unexpected discussion. Uh, Nick will, uh, be pleased to hear that, dunno if he gets commission out of that. So, you know, you might have 50 meetings in three days and maybe four or five are really significant in terms of a deal. In terms of fine tuning strategy, but it's really about the relationship building. I think, you know, data is probably a word used all the time on your podcast, Richard, US as well. But at the same time, I think everyone will agree this is still a relationships business. You know, you can be presenting your deck to senior management. The data needs to stack up in terms of the business case. But, you know, getting to that point or indeed getting beyond theory or valuations to the actual buying and selling. The market. In other words, it's still driven by relationships in the sports industry. So,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:of did you do a deal when you get back? I always think that when you go back to the office and Nick, this is, this is sort of one for you, but when. People go and sport out, you go along. It's not the same as any conference, but you get people who can go. And then there are people back at At HQ who don't go and they say, oh yeah, you've had three, you know, three days or five days in Monaco. And they're, they want, they, what have you done? I wanna see some tangible return. Did you do any deals? Is the first question as you walked back in with a suntan. And carrying a sort of duty free bag into the office, you sort of think, oh, you know, so what happened? You know, is that, is that, that that sort of deal making bit is central to sport. It's still, it's still there, isn't it? It's just, I suppose the
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:Yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Ken's point, they're not like one deal and you, your years done, they're working much harder to try and try and get stuff over the line.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think, you know, again, looking. Across the last 15 years. And so things, things are, are more challenging and you have to spend more time and it's more competitive and then it's more diverse and and complex. And so I think obviously in a world where everything is so digital and we're all spending so much time digitally actually getting to. Spend some time one-on-one with people. It is really important. I'm obviously biased because I work with an event, but I think, I think the things that you, you can't do digitally are when you are going. Going to Sports Island, meeting people, and let's say we go, let's say we're all, we're all, we're all heading to the Irish bar. And you know, somebody, somebody you know, pours a pint on you by accident, and then you say, oh, you meet him. And then 10 years later you're like, oh yeah. Aren't you the guy that put a pint on me? Oh, now I work with him. Oh, so let's do this. You know, because you're, you're almost, it's, it's a really like, quite tight knit group. And I think if you look at the, again, coming back to, I mean, I'm a sales guy, so coming back to, okay, I had 15 meetings each day. So I had, in the end I had 50 meetings and 10 were interesting and I closed two. Well, I think that's a really nice way of still looking at it. Because I think I, I mean, I, I personally go to a lot of conferences and you go and you watch, you learn and listen to a lot of content and that's really great. And I, I really enjoy that. It has great value. Um, but I think that one. Thing that is really still very special about sport L as it's really a marketplace, right? You go, you set up your shops, 10, 15 meetings a day, five or 10 are interesting close to tell your boss, this is how much money's coming in, see you next year. I mean, that's kind of, and that's, and that's maybe, that's, maybe that's why people keep coming back to Sport L'cause of that.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:back. It's like they, it's not. They, we, we've signed the American Rights for the Premier League. It's like we've, we've got the mobile rights for Albania and people are sort of da, you know, they're dancing around the office.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:But Richard, to your point about, you know, One shouldn't complain about spending a couple of working days in late October on the K de Zoo. However, it's important to say this, that you know, sometimes if you're in one of the more plain corners of the Grimaldi Forum, they do exist. You may as well be in a business park in Croydon. You know, you're there. It's that 30 minute speed dating.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:I was there and it rained and I was, you know, I was,
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:It can. Yeah. This is not what I signed up for. Yeah. Look, the med sunshine are not ubiquitous parts of the sport experience, and it's important our families and colleagues know that.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:That's true.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:What do we think are the big talking points? I've got a few down that I think I was sort of running through. Stuff that's happened. There's, there's the recent things, things like you mentioned the Bundesliga thing, which is getting a lot of pickup and you know, about, and just the role of YouTube more generally in, in the scheme of things. And part of that is, and I'm gonna just get his name, rock tv, the, you know, the Brazilian streamer in and the FIFA relationship. You've got the D Zone, world Club Cup. Thing That was a story that again, we all looked at, you know, very closely. This is obviously a very, quite a European sort of lens and we'll get Ken's line on this. Then earlier I was looking at, there's the Warner Brothers TNT story, discovery, divorce thing. IMG Premier League Productions, again, very sort of inside baseball, but that again, what was, what's caught your eye, Ken? Just give us a sort of sense of what do you think? Just things that are bubbling around.'cause those are things that I'm always interested in what people will be talking about when they get there.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:right, right. Well, you know, I'll put a little bit of a US lens. Obviously, E-S-P-N-A couple weeks ago launched their DTC. Direct to consumer service, you know, so obviously historically in the US it's, it's ESPN's been through cable. Now they're making a big push to make it available purely to someone who doesn't have cable. And it's a much richer experience. But what's interesting about that, but I think hints to the future is, you know, they did a deal with Fox Sports also. you can subscribe to ESPN and then there's a package. You pay 10 extra dollars and you also get Fox Sports' app, is really interesting when you think about year, right when Fox has the World Cup. ESPN does not have the World Cup in 2027. ESPN has a Super Bowl. Fox does not have the Super Bowl, but yet they will both be able to leverage each other's deals. So I think there's a whole nother level of deal making that's possibly gonna be a discussion point, which is, Hey, you have a good streaming app. We have a good streaming app. We should try to come together and obviously tried a couple years ago with this venue thing. got a little bit over the skis as far as just trying to figure it out. It may has to be like the way ESPN's done it. Maybe they fold in somebody else and fold in somebody else and then five years we have a streaming, we pay one bill like the old days of cable, you pay one pay TV bill and you get all your services. So I think that's gonna be an interesting thing for me to see.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:on that, Ken, it's a really good point. What, what do we think ESPN want to be now? Because that it feels like you, there's the, there's the app question. There's also the, the NFL relationship, which again feels like a sort of a moment, but what
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:they want to be the front door for, for everything?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:I think, yeah, Jimmy Pitaro has their, president has very much said that, you know, they're open to, for example, in the US we have all these regional sports networks Also,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:on the baseball side he's, he's interested becoming a, a sort of like a showroom for people to kind of come into ESPN, oh, I'm gonna subscribe to this re RSN app and this RSS N app. So they definitely want that. I think there's still that tension of, you know, it's still priced. They're not, if they wanted to say we're we're streaming and screw cable tv, they would price it at. know,$12,$15 a month and really go head to head with cable and try to attempt people to cut the cord.'cause when you still subscribe to cable, you're paying about 11 bucks, 12 bucks for the, for ESPN and some Disney apps too, or Disney channels. So I think there's still pricing. This is the, the tension right now is that all the streamers like the RSNs, when they like the S network here in New York, they've worked with Gotham. Now in New York, they charge 40 bucks a month. Right? I subscribe to the cable here in the city. I get it for.$12 a month, what have you. So they're still not, they're, they're not totally on board to say, we're gonna screw cable and pay TV environment. They still kind of playing both sides, which is fine.'cause I think that's what, you know, anybody under the age of 30 doesn't wanna have cable, so maybe they're willing to pay 40 bucks for ESPN, you know, but it's a fascinating time right now. So I think that you know, that sort, the sort of tension is still there. But I think they just want to offer, they wanna give fans all the options that they want as far as how they want.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:that price question is fascinating. I, and where the market wants to land or where they land in terms of the price point, which again, is critical. You've got this, it always used to be the D zone question about, you can't get what you need to buy
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:the Netflix price point. So you're trying to, you know, you're trying to fit, fit two things together that don't work. And then I was, there was a, there's a really, a sort of adjunct to that is there's a whole question, which is totally separate. this conversation. But, you know, parallels is to do with how their pricing ai large language models and you know, that that sort of chat GPT price points, they're having the same questions. Is it 10 quid? Is it 40 quid? Is it a hundred quid? And it's trying to then work out what, what that means and is that substitutional for sports rights, there's a question that. Is lurking in terms of what the, the price comparators are in the market. And it's not just, you know, so sports air is a very narrow lens on price question, and we're all talking about, you know, every, when everything's a subscription, we're all balancing these, this stuff. So the price point you made there is really interesting. I think that's something that will get into it. Imran, what was your sort of, uh, list of stories?
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:I think a lot of stories you hear there and I think a gossip, you guys have mentioned the Irish bar a few times and a lot of gossip you hear there. I think that's an important part of why people go,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:I can never
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:I think even, yeah, that is the tough part. You gotta remember it. The next morning I stopped drinking actually the same year I first went to sport. So I'm, that's my, that's the role I play in the team. I, I think also there's always, there's often a big announcement sort of on the first day, some big news, I think last year. It was confirmation two circles were acquiring spring media and that branding was everywhere, emblazoned. Although my brilliant colleagues at Sport Business, I should say, broke that about a month before Martin, Ross, John, rest and the, and the like. I think the year before that Siria announced their domestic deals, so that sort of filtered through late morning and the buzz went everywhere. So there'll probably be something like that. Beyond that, I think you're right to say the Club World Cup for sure. People will be looking at how it worked for D Zone, also how it worked. For those who sub licensed the rights, that'll be a big talking point. Relevant sports group will be there in a much bigger way than before. Maybe under their relevant football partners specialist vehicle, which is of course selling ua. Club competition rights now, well, from 20 27, 28 onwards, I think they'll get one of the big rooms maybe Nick knows, is already sort of downstairs where the big boys are. Fifa, you know, that's where the likes of FIFA are. So we'll probably see them there. Uh, might get complicated'cause they might be recruiting people already working for others who have non-competes. I dunno, let's not get into that. But look you know, I think people will be talking about their packaging. Kind of as you and Ken alluded to earlier, sort of the fragmenting and the, and the way things are done, Simon Deya spoke about this on your pod last week or week before. There's rumors of a, of a global player sort of package for those rights, sort of, you know, uh, the first pick one game night with how they'll do that to try and draw in one of the global streamers. So I think that'll be a big factor. Then there's more niche things for, for example, for agencies going for the calf rights. African, uh, football rights a FC rights are also going to market towards the end of the year. That's the Asian football confederation. So the agencies and, and others will be interested in things like that. You mentioned Premier League, us, I mean, that probably will go to market next year. I think that's a big deal on the, on the, on the horizon, which will kind of, in a way show us where we're at as an industry. And generally, of course, the FIFA World Cup. There'll be talk around that. There's some deals yet to be done actually for next year's World Cup in quite big markets. Japan, China, India, largely Asia. So let's see if those are done by then. Uh, I mean, there's so much going on, even even the NBA Europe question. I wonder if that's gonna be gonna be part of it. I mean, the list goes on. There's always stuff to talk about.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Nick, tell me the, the downstairs bit. I'm fascinated by it.'cause I, there is that sense of there are stages in the building and then downstairs is where, what happens. People just rent, they rent out the bigger rooms. Do they? The the they just run those as sort of networking or sales houses.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:I had to sign an NDA for that. So I'm not allowed to tell you what happens down there. But uh, no. Basically, as you know, for, for many years, we have, we have the, the dle, which is the exhibition hall, where is the entrance and exits. And we have many good exhibitors there. Then you kind of have the traditional hall, which is the val, which you have exhibitors that have been there for, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 plus years. And then we have downstairs, we have more of a. Private rooms, basically meeting rooms where a lot of, uh, I don't wanna name the people who are down there, but the companies, they want to spend a lot of time where they're gonna have private conversations, have conversations that last, you know, anywhere 30 minutes, one hour, two hours, they want to have private viewings and showing content. And actually this year we're gonna have some new, uh. Since you mentioned that the, some pri new private exhibitor suites, uh, premium exhibitor suites actually on the, on the, the A level law, which will be very interesting to see'cause they're brand new and something that people have been asking for for a while. So, uh, as the industry changes, so to support Al and, uh, yeah, hopefully we can continue to the best environment for our community as we can.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:What do we think about YouTube? What, what do YouTube turn up? Are they there this year?
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:You asking me that question or?
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:uh,
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:sure. YouTube at the moment we're, we're discussing with, but we don't have anyone who's confirmed to speak or anything from, from YouTube at this point in time. but we do often have one or two people come from YouTube who attend the event.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Ken over here? we've got this, and this talks to the sort of, we, we mentioned about Bundesliga, we mentioned about Caza tv, but you've got the street, you know, the YouTube question, which is emerging in the middle of the marketplace and people have, you know, lots of views and, and it's running, you know, all day, every day about the pros and cons of YouTube. We all, you know, it's become. Television in many senses, but it's not, and it's sort of an odd shaped thing. It's a fascinating product, but it's also what they want and how sport responds to it, I think is a really interesting And I can sort of see, streaming bits, which is very marginal. I think, you know, in terms of the, the deals, if you are looking across the landscape, the argument being okay, yeah, okay. You get a young, you skew a younger audience, you get YouTube in. various, you know, parts of either geographies or you do deals with you know, the, the stream or the, uh, creators. But what do you think about where that's going? I just wonder, and there might be, I don't know if there's a Europe US difference there, but they seem they have paid rights here over in the us haven't they?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, I mean, I think the, yeah, for example, you, they're doing an NFL game, uh, this week actually. Uh, I think one of, you know, one of the challenges with YouTube, obviously, I think, and for everybody, obviously, we, you only have so many minutes in the day to consume content, right? So the biggest challenge is not getting them is, is just. Understanding that especially people in the age of like 2030, they're, that's, they get into the YouTube, we all get, get there ourselves, the YouTube rabbit hole and you kind of spiral down and three hours later you haven't watched an quote, quote unquote regular content. So, but, so I think there's that tension. I think the beauty of YouTube obviously is smaller leagues, let's, let's leave beside the big ones. For big ones, it's a great promotional tool, but for the smaller startup leagues, and it's an opportunity to get their content out there. And into the masses. And then by the way, that's how they can get exposure to strike a real deal. So I think there's a really, it is part of the ecosystem of help helping the sort of upstart leagues and federations kind of get some, a foothold. You know, that's, that's the way I look at it's'cause if, if, if the four of us were starting a, a league tomorrow, it'd probably be the first place we'd go. We'd say, Hey, let's, let's just get, get some cameras, stream it and put it up on YouTube. Follow, see what happens. So
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:that's the, the big part that it plays. And then, yeah, we'll say the NFL game goes this week. You know, the challenge is they still, they don't have a production unit per se, with a big team of, you know, hiring trucks and cameras and stuff. So they kind of rely still on the leagues to kind of give them the content already kind of ready to go. But you know.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:know, that, that, I mean, one of the questions, and Imran I'll bring you in in this is, but you're sort of starting as a net negative, aren't you? In terms of, okay, you've gotta take on the cost of production and then you're gonna go and take, and you are gonna give the stuff to YouTube for nothing, in which case you'll work out a deal and, you know, the people who know more about it than I do. So it's, you know, it's, it's 10 p on the pound, it's not comparable in terms of the, the economics of it. are you are building an audience for the future and you are doing all the stuff that we know that YouTube does really well. We had Peter Hutton on a couple of weeks ago. Obviously he spent a lot of time at Meta and running the sports division at Meta and he was really interesting saying, well, you know, when sport comes in the door, meta sort of weighed it up and said, well, we don't need to buy rights'cause they're gonna come anyway. They're gonna give us the stuff anyway. So why would we pay a write a massive check? And I don't, what I don't quite know is what the difference is between YouTube and Facebook. And I'm sure there are differences in terms of, you know, the way in which you can make money from one over the other. And I know that people prefer YouTube over Facebook or for various reasons, but the same principle feels the same in terms of this is, these are engineering companies the old, you know, the sport history of. Deals at around the marketplace don't apply. So it's, it's quite an interesting moment, I think. And it's sort of trying to sort of pin the, all of these different questions down. I can sort of see where, you know, the, creator question. That's fine. I get that. But it's a really marginal bit of the picture.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, we see, and we'll see how the NFL does this week with their game. You know, that's, that'll be a big, a big test. By the time we get to the show, we will know exactly how that went. So, you know, but
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:I, I think also, I mean,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:streamed it?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Correct. Yep. And it'll be exclusive. Yeah. So.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:and you know Richard, you've mentioned Caso, Tivy a lot in Brazil, and I think a lot of these questions are very market specific. If you look at somewhere like Spain, for example, something like Twitch, Amazon owned is huge and there are streamers there through which people, you know, use as a, as a medium to which watch content. But back to Brazil, so. As a sort of response to Caity, you have Globo with a big media giant there. They're now sort of launching their own YouTube channel, which will exploit some of their live rights, which are pretty premium rights down there. ESPN Brazil is going to do the same eventually as well show live sport, premium sport on its YouTube channel, just as a kind of response they've had to adapt. Onto your question to Nick about YouTube, uh, and Google and sport. It's interesting. You know, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, they don't even need to show up to be relevant. I think that's how vital they are to be, you know, I think they do show up sometimes you see them on the list, but they're very inconspicuous. You're not gonna see their logo. They don't have the massive stall. I mean, maybe again, Nick doesn't like what I'm saying'cause he wants them to get that, but they don't need to to be kind of front and center. And they will dominate discussions. Again, Netflix, I know, you know, we've talked a lot here, but also generally Christmas Day, world Cup, uh, women's World Cup, wwe, they got a really interesting deal just last week or, or the week before, which was the, the World Baseball Classic in Japan, which is a big property because I think over 50 million people watched it live in Japan, beat the US a couple of years ago. And so a bit like Amazon. There'll be specific markets where they go for specific things, and in a similar way, Disney, we've discussed. From a, in a European, sorry, US angle. They're doing a lot in Europe and elsewhere and I think a lot of people will be asking about Disney at sport this year. Where are they heading next? What are they heading for? On the back of them getting the Women's Champions League rights Laga package in the uk. They've already got some European Club football in the Nordics, so I think Disney's gonna be top of people, mi people's minds as well.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's also fun. I mean, in some ways I always think that the, the YouTube. Question is actually a sort of proxy for the other question, which is relevance or, or the, the disappearance of mass relevance. You know, there are very few events now that capture a truly mass audience, and what we're doing is going into rabbit holes and into, you know, and that fits the YouTube model. Really, it could be YouTube, it could be anything else, but actually it's about the trying to make, do big statements in a world where you've got like a sort of, you know, disappearing attention. And this is why people hold up obviously World Cups and Super Bowls in that, you know, they say, well, this is, these are the last remaining water cooler moments, blah, blah, blah. Whether that's true or not, and whether or not we're just sort of using YouTube as a, as a proxy for that. I dunno.
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:It's interesting. From a, from a sports out point of view, I think, again, one of my first sport tells YouTube had this huge stand at the entrance that was, let's say, that was 10, 15 years ago. And then, and then at some point in the last. 15 years ago, Facebook had had an exhibition stand. And so I think it just shows that at, at different stages where the industry is, uh, specific to new technology, social media everyone is trying to find their way and how do we make the most of what we have?
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:You're right. And the other bit is the, the supply chain and we mentioned, you know, the sort of Premier League and IMG, that deal coming to an end and that felt significant again, we sort of project onto these things, don't we? And, and we say, right, okay, this is a directional moment. And quite often they're not. And it's just a, you know, it's sort of business as usual. But that story carried bigger story about the sort of, what is the role of rights holders now. And where the line is and who is the target market. So at Sport Hill, you've got a lot of people who are selling the plumbing. You know what I, I call irreverently the plumbing as in the sort of just, just the, the distribution technology or the retail technology, whatever it is, and who are they selling it to? A lot of the targets are actually rights holders now. And again, it's quite interesting seeing who's turning up at Sport L because you've got a lot of people who want a need to develop in-house sort of capability, and what does that actually mean? It probably means they're gonna hire it in, but the Premier League one was interesting'cause it sort of felt like it was going against that. Ken, is that,
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Well, you know what?
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:recognize?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Well, what, what I find fascinating about the Premier League, uh, you know, stepping away from IMG kind of taking things in house is. What does the NFL do? But a month ago they sell off the NFL network to ESPN.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah, yeah.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:The NBA had on had a big facility. They said, you know what, Turner, you take this over. We're a kind of, it's, so I think, uh, I'm curious to see how this goes long term. I'm sure it'll be fine, but I think a lot of leagues have realized they kind of bring things internally and they're like, oh my God, this is really. This is expensive to do this for 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Let's kind of so I'm curious to see how it's gonna go. I think it'll, it'll go great. I'm excited. I love the people there. You know, Andy's, Andy Beal and stuff like some great people, thought leaders, but it's gonna be, I'm curious to see how it kind of goes.'cause it's, it does go against the trend here in the US which is sort of like league saying, eh, you know what, getting a check for doing nothing is wonderful, you know?
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Well, not going off from that, not on production, but on distribution. Of course, we haven't discussed liga, which. We'll, by late October, have had several months, uh, D two C for its domestic media rights. I think that's gonna be a big talking point, how that's going, the effect on the league. The clubs we'll know a lot more in terms of subscriber numbers and, you know, more realistic projections by then. I, I dunno if they'll be there this year, last year. RMC, the radio station. They're like the talk sport of France, I think. And they look pretty rambunctious. They're sort of there by the entrance.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:I'll, I'll definitely go and chat with them about li and their thoughts. Uh, next, uh, in October,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:what do we think about the Warner Brothers? Ken? Just, just give us a sort of top line because I'm always aware that I'm. looking at it from a distance, really. I'm not close enough to it to get a sense of it
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:in, day out basis. And I'm following, you know, People who, whose opinions I, you know, find interesting. But where are we in that story? Because again, it's a, it's a really big one to make it local to the UK or to to Europe. We, we are looking at TNT and hearing the noises either way in terms of what that actually means for that bit of the thing, which I know is a small bit of the jigsaw. What do, what's your, give us a sort of sense of it.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:well, I mean, I was listening to, uh, national Public Radio today and they were talking about the Heinz Craft deal. Right? Which, that's kind of, so they're actually saying how in, in general it seems bigger is not better. And you're starting to see, you know, people kind of, these big companies kind of fracture. Look, I can go on for, I, I, I think for, I'm gonna focus more on the branding of this whole thing because I think everything will work out in the end for sports fans, but they, you know, they rebranded in Europe, TNT, which is a brand, and we know it in the us. No one knows it in Europe, so it's kind of very strange to me. Then here they started going with Warner Brothers and then, and Discovery, and people are like, what the hell is discovery? But everybody in Europe knew discovery, don't get me started on the HBO, the max thing and taking HBO, which to me is probably the third. The biggest brand, best brand behind the BBC as far as respect in the world. And they're like, yeah, let's go Max.'cause we love Cinemax. I, anyway, I think it'll work out.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:guys in the room.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. And you know, and then they got it back to it, right? So they went all, they went full circle. So I'm just, you're just like, and
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:And don't forget, Eurosport in the midst of all this as well
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah, no, exactly. And
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:for Eurosport.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:I mean, we'll, let's go back 30 years, Tom Warner, a OL deal, right? So I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna say that there's something in the water when you work for Warner Brothers or Warner as far as making deals that are kind of like a little dicey. But, know, I'm, I I think it'll all work out in the end. It's, you know, so, but it's, I think maybe smaller is, you know, the craft hez thing is fascinating. They kind of come together, they go, oh, wait a second, this doesn't quite work. And they kind of go apart. That was my rant. Sorry.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Yeah, absolutely. It was interesting'cause you sort of, again, I, you get a sense of actually. you've got the brand, you're right, the branding question. You've got the sort of the retail, what it looks like at the fan end and how they're going to sort of present that. it feels like just a, a load of
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:in various very clever ways and Wall Street making a fortune. And you end up with, the sports bit is so off the mark, although it focuses our attention. it's not about that, you know, and
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:just other games being played of which they will work or get to the sport bit at some point. There's always a sort of, what's the future of the NBA type, you know, rights and all within that. But that's our lens into it. But actually it's sort of one of those stories that I think it's just
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:And.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:it's just
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:uh, that I, and to be positive, I think to Iran's point, the, the Euro sport, the quality of that product has, has gotten better. You know, the, what they do around the Olympics is, is quite amazing. So I think we, you know, we can celebrate those kind of things. So I think sport at the end of the day, still matters. I think it's a lot of it has to do with the, my biggest concern with all these deals is it stinks to be working for a sports division within a company that has big Hollywood movies and that you have to pay the price. If the Hollywood movie. Stinks. That's a real big, that stinks. You know, people get laid off'cause you know, the new Marvel movie didn't do great. Or you know, it's just a very strange, pathetic situation because I wish that didn't happen, but.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:I mean that, again, that's one of the, the sort of longer term themes Risk and where the risk resides in, you know, and particularly where you take that analogy and move it into sport. The broadcast have always turned around and said, look, okay, we are writing you a big check. You come back in three years for another one. We are sat with, you know, the risk of making money
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:and.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:do you think those deals should get longer? I know here in the US we don't do three year deals. They do, you know, seven, 10 year deals. You know, and I, I was, I mean, Iran, you can, I'm sure you see this all the time, the three year deals for the Champions League, they always change. The rights always change because year one, you get the rights and you're like, we're all in year two. You look at the ratings, you're kind of like, eh, they were okay. Then it's time to bid for, you know, for the, for next year. You step away from the bid'cause it's not, and then the third year the production values drop. You just kind of say, well, we're out. And then it re it's like a rinse and repeat
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:Yeah.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Absolutely. I think, I think we're seeing that more and more where IP acquisition is becoming more and more a thing, and that stems from the states and it's coming to Europe. I think even more niche within Europe. Uh, media rights deals, you know, there's actually been regulation to allow those to be longer over recent years. And just to Richard's point, absolutely sharing risk partnering is, uh, you know, has been a topic at sport and through the industry for the last few years. You don't see those big agency buyouts that you would've seen 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. You don't see those massive minimum guarantees put down, uh, in the same with the same frequency as you did. Uh, and sport L is all part of that, again, relationship building to, to kind of work together collaboratively rather than just do a transactional deal.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:And Ken, just on your, the comparison, on the bundle, which is obviously our regular media rights podcast, the MLS Apple deal comes up quite a lot and obviously you had a 10 years, you have a headline number. And then you get to the question of where the risk resides, over that length of time. the argument being that, okay, it gives Apple a time to say, be the home of MLS for, for a generation or whatever that is, try to work out from the sales side what's good value. If you're taking a number in 2025 for 10 years, you sort of mitigate against it, either going massively up or hugely down is,
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:fascinating. When I look at, the US rights market they are on deals that are going into the sort of 2030s.
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Yep. Yep.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:of think, what, what, what would you talk about for that length of time? You know, that's, you know,
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:Right, right, right.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:what would Imran do in this situation?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:But, you know, but the, but the, the good news is that the nature of the relationships kind of evolve, but there, obviously there's a commitment there. But, you know, the technology evolves, the experience evolves for the fans, but it also gives them more runway to just kind of make enough a big investment in technology and people, and then, you know, amortize it over a longer period of time. Whereas the three years just kinda always kind of like around, whiplash, that kind of stuff. So,
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:I'm gonna finish off with a, the anxiety I have about sort of, and this, I, it sounds like I'm drinking all the time. I'm not, but I'm interested in the parties and how those organize. Nick, when you get, when I, on a Monday, I quite often think, okay, so ESPN quite often have a do outside IMG. Sometimes I would do in the same sort of area. How are those things? Are they, are they run through you guys? Are you, is it, or what do you do? Are you having your own sort of, uh, arrangements this year?
nick_1_09-03-2025_143046:absolutely. I mean for, I think part of kind of the heritage of, of sports our Monaco is, is the ESPN party. What kicks off, you know, at the end of the day of on Monday and then in the evening. For, for many years, IMG have been throwing parties and, and there's a number of other ones, and on the Tuesday there's a lot going on, but everyone kind of winds up at the Irish Pub, even though the Irish pub has changed hands over the years. Everyone keeps going there and I think that's kind of part of the Unofficial program of sports health. I mean those are, those are completely organized by the by. The organizers of the party, ESPN, IM GO or whoever, it's, it's, I mean, we work very closely with them as, as exhibitors, sponsors, partners and, and everything else. But ultimately, if they want to go and, and throw a party, you know, go, go and have a good time in Monaco. Absolutely.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Okay. Right. Listen, we are gonna sort of round up there. do you fly in U2? Ken, are you getting in there on a Sunday?
ken_1_09-03-2025_083046:am getting in on the Sunday. Yeah, exactly. Yep. I'll be fly back on Wednesday'cause we have an event here in the city on the Thursday, so, but yeah.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:And the sport business crew, they're gonna be there in on four in force.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Yeah. Sunday, and then we leave Wednesday. And you know, I've noticed a secret over the years a lot of these very senior people, they're flying on the Sunday and they have a nice dinner with some old. Friend and I'll do a pack Monday, including those parties you mentioned. And then Tuesday morning they'll often jet off and they, I guess they're above the Irish bar scene. Um, So yeah, obviously I'm not that important, so I have to do the, the full marathon.
richard_1_09-03-2025_133046:Is anyone above the Irish bar? Listen, thanks a lot. I'm looking forward to it as ever. Thanks, Nick. Thanks, Ken. Thanks Imran. Cheers.
imran-_1_09-03-2025_133047:Thanks, Richard.