Unofficial Partner Podcast
Unofficial Partner Podcast
UP521: Inside Edge - 'American money is IPL curious'
Inside Edge is our cricket business series with co-host Mike Jakeman. Today's guest is Venkat Ananth on the money circling the IPL franchises. Check out Venkat's newsletter and blog, State of Play.
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Hi there. Hi there. Welcome to, hi there. It's Richard Gillis here. Welcome to Unofficial Partner, the Sports Business Podcast. Today is an episode of Inside Edge, our Business of Cricket series. Recorded with my co-host Mike Jakeman. Our guest in our guest from Bangalore is Venkat Ananth, who is a writer on the business of cricket and business of sport in India. I would. Strongly recommend you check out his state of play Substack, his state of play newsletter and blog, which covers the finance and the financial stories around the IPL and the IPL franchises. And today we're talking about a recent story of his to do with the Luck Now franchise and we are looking at the. The investment and we're looking at the IPL franchises as an investment and also the cost and opportunities of expansion into a hundred franchises, other 2020 leagues around the world. Hope you enjoy it. Hello there. Welcome to Unofficial Partner, the Sports Business Podcast. I'm Richard Gillis. Today we're talking Cricket with Mike Jakeman, who is my co-host for this series of Inside Edge and. We have invited Van Kat Anth, who is a really, really interesting writer on the business of Indian Sport, I would. Strongly recommend you check out his state of play newsletter and blog, on the financial picture around the IPL franchises, and that's what we talk about today. This episode of the Unofficial Partner Podcast is brought to you by Sid Lee Sport. Sid Lee Sport is the fame making, creative and sponsorship agency for brands in sport through exceptional creativity. Deep sponsorship expertise and flawless onsite delivery. They help brands, sponsors, and rights holders unlock their full potential in sport. Most recently picking up a Leader's sports award for their work with Little at Uafa Euro 2024. Everything they do is driven by a culture of effectiveness because in sport performance matters not just on the pitch, but in the work too. So whether you wanna build Buzz, connect with audiences, or do something that actually cuts through Sidley Sport knows how. Visit sidley sport.com where brands become champions.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Mike Jakeman, we should say hello to you from sunny Portugal off the back of a sort of classic test match. Five days in Perth? No. Oh no. Oh no. Only two days in Perth.
Mike Jakeman:Well, there is some genuine. recognizable test happening, in India at the moment.
Venkat Ananth:Mike, sorry, I, I, I think I just have to intervene here and say it's, it's an absolute nightmare watching that game right now.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:should say hello to Venkat. Venkat. Hello?
Venkat Ananth:Hey. Hi. Uh, hi. Thanks for having me, guys.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:We had Phil, we on recently, which, who is obviously a cricket agent. It's To a whole load of, England cricketers and we were quite excited in the run up to the Perth game. And then it was just, it was absolute chaos, wasn't it?
Mike Jakeman:Uh, on the BBC likened it to a sort of fever dream. and it, that was exactly right. It was, and it'd be very interesting to see whether or not, you know, we've seen some one-off crazy test matches at the start of test series in recent years. And if I'm trying to apply some logic to this, I'd say that's probably because, or possibly because teams have done largely done away with matches for, for test series now, which means that they may not be as grooved. you know, even having that sort of, the sense of, right, well we're playing, we're playing test cricket, we've got time here. so it could be some of that. I mean, I'm interested to see how the rest of the series goes. I don't for a minute think that we're gonna see, uh, England start grinding. Bating out. That's not in their philosophy. And it was very interesting that, uh, in Stokes's post-match interview, he talked about, that he felt that the, the reason the batting was struggling was because they weren't taking the brave option. there's no hint from him that England are, are, are gonna change any sort of strategy. I, I think, I don't think we'll see 20 wicks in a day every day. The rest of the.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I mean this, this being a business public conversation, I was trying to work out, I wasn't trying to work out, but I was wondering what the, what the impact was because they're gonna have to pay back those tickets. And two days is a, a nightmare for the administrators. Not that, you know, that's sign, you know, significant in the, in the scheme of things. But it's pretty big, isn't it?
Mike Jakeman:I would say it's, it's, it will be notable in Cricket Australia's accounts at the end of the financial year that, you know, they've played fewer days, than they would've been budgeting for. obviously one of the, the great things about England Series against India, in the summer of this year is that, you know, every day went the distance, which is a boon for the ECB, and this is now obviously working opposite way for critical Australia.
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. Uh, I, uh, if I could just add, I think they're staring at about 3 million Aussie, that's about$2 million. Uh, yeah, it's quite sizable. I mean, we don't see a lot of two day finishes. Even by the rather exciting standards that that basketball sets, so-called basketball sets these days. Uh, I think two days, nobody saw that coming. this team, so
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:How
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:get about Babo and you know, in terms of it's created this sort of sub-brand in English, Crickett. I think it's really interesting you know, as a philosophy, if you look back about where they, where they came in when McCullum and Stokes took over England were in a real estate. So it's been a ride and it is frustrating watching them throw games away. But then in the, in the sort of entirety of it, am, I think I'm in favor, but I do think it's quite interesting'cause it really does trigger Because it, it seems to go against everything they believe test cricket should be about, I dunno. And they, and you can easily wheel out. They've been very provocative about X player comments and, you know, talking about has beens and that, that riles up the sort of class, doesn't it? And people immediately get a bit annoyed by that sort of stuff. But it's good, you know, I quite like it, but I don't want two day test cricket. But it's, it's quite an interesting addition to the, to the landscape.
Mike Jakeman:Think it's about it's possible to play this way with the flexibility that you need, because ultimately what you want test cricket to do is, is give players the opportunity to demonstrate their talent. And, I will defend basal to the hilt as a strategy for winning series, such as when England, uh, played Pakistan away. Not long after Stokes and column came to the fore and they decided that the way very shrewdly to get results on flat Pakistani pitches to go at five and over and force the amount of, in incre, they effectively increased the amount of time in the game. And that series was brilliantly. and it's fair to say I don't think there would be many England sides that would've won that series, previously. that's, and that, but that may end up being the high point because Brooks second innings where, you know, flashed all twice and is out for a duck, I mean, everybody may, has brain fades. And I get the point about risk reward, but that was not the right way to play that situation. But I dunno if it's possible to, to switch from one to another very easily. And, but it felt like the game wasn't filling the promise of the format,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Here is, here is a sort of, right, I'm gonna, here is a bridge then from Harry Brooks innings to what we're gonna talk about today, because obviously you've got this, the, we are talking about today 2020 cricket and we're talking about the IPL and we're gonna be talking about a specific exclusive that Venkat has, uh, put on his, uh, state of play, website, which is excellent. I'll push everyone towards that, in due course. But there is the incentive in the market Babo has emerged from 2020, it's the 2020 era. And just the mental approach to it, but also the technique, all of those things is wrapped up in this. need to sort of talk about the influence of the IPL and of 2020 Cricket, first of all. But let's just talk about the story. So Vencat set this up for us'cause the headline is. luck now. Super
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:close in on$200 million fundraise. UK based investor group negotiating a minority stake in the IPR franchise in one of the league's largest recent equity deals. This is a really lovely story. I want you to just say, give us a bit of context to it.'cause I think there's a load of things in it that we, and Mike, and then across artificial partner, we talk about the investment marketplace for sport and all of these things. And this is a story which encapsulates a lot of those threads, but just, just set up for us what's going on. I mean, we've been hearing about these deals for a while. I mean, For the last six months or so, and we had this thunderbolt of a story, that the Royal Challengers, Bangalore, which is the original aid franchise, was looking to sell. it had a price tag of about$2 billion. which these are unheard of numbers. In, in the IPL. And, there's been a frenzy of activity right now, because a lot of these IPO franchises also expanding to other markets, including the uk. for example, I think the Lana Super Giants, the owners actually have invested in the hundred with the Manchester originals. So there's obviously a lot of, cross border interest that's, that's sort of emerging right now. But critically, I think with the Lak now guys, they were among the new franchises who came into, uh, the IPL fold in 2022. They were sold in 2021, but they start playing in 2022. They had a hefty franchise fee, I mean, it's an annual fee of 709 crows in a year. a substantial amount. and I think for them, the plan was simple. I mean, they had to, find a way of augmenting it. So I think they, as the story mentions, they, they did that with a lot of operational income, which is what they received from the BCCI, as part of the central pool. And, uh, they took some debt. so now they're raising this 200 million from, uh, a very curious investor called Jordan Associates, uh, who, had links to F1, which is Eddie Jordan, it's the late
Venkat Ananth:uh, the late Eddie Jordan rather.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:is it, Kyle.
Venkat Ananth:Yeah, that's Kyle Jordan. Yeah, Kyle Jordan's, basically running the fund. they are keen to take a 15% interest in the lak now super giants at a$1.3 billion valuation. Which is quite interesting because last year we, we also had the Good Gura deal, I think where CVC actually sold about 67% of the franchise to, the Torrent Group here. And I think the overall value of the franchise is somewhere around one point, maybe$1.35 billion. So it gives them valuation parity with the Gura Titans, which is something they've been looking for. And also help them service the debt, while also putting some expansion money, into the operations. So that's, that's pretty much the story with, with the Lana Super Giants. I do expect more such deals to happen in the, in the coming months. It speaks to where the IPL is today. I mean, I met a banker last week I was in, in Mumbai, which is my hometown, and I think one of the, one of the standout lines was there is no sports fund in the world. That is not IPL curious right now. That is not, that has not looked at, looked at wanting to get into the IPL. it may not happen immediately, but they have, they are obviously evaluating. These franchises and it's one of a kind in terms of a tournament in terms of a, of a league. But at the same time that you're talking about these large family offices, not just India, you're know, I mean the Red Birds the world are invested in, I mean, we just had, which is an American and a private equity, uh, giant if you wanna call them, which has acquired 5% of the royals in September. So there is a lot of private market activity that's happening in the IPL right now. And, should RCB. Sell at a fair price. And I don't take that to be$2 billion because that's, way too realistic. Uh, there will be a flurry of activities, in the aftermath of that deal.
Mike Jakeman:one in a little bit more detail as well. And then we can consider the, the two, uh, potential moves kind of together and what
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Mike Jakeman:about the IPL. So as well as, uh, luck now seeking some, uh, external investment. there's also been a fair amount of speculation that, uh, Diageo, which is the, the parent company that owns challenges, Bangalore, the.
Venkat Ananth:Yes, that's correct.
Mike Jakeman:could you explain some of the dynamics as to why they want they think now is a good selling time? Because
Venkat Ananth:Okay.
Mike Jakeman:heard a lot of, know, positive stuff about the, the i p's future growth prospects and the fact that each time there is a chance to get into the IPL. There are lots of sports funds that want to, and the prices that, for the, the expansion franchises in 2022 were very high. obviously you've talked about a, a pretty optimistic price that they're asking for R cv. why now?
Venkat Ananth:I'll just break this down into what we are hearing in India is they've had, they've had multiple issues in the aftermath of RCB, winning their first IPL. League, which was a remarkable moment. How to put it in words. I mean, I'm in the city. Uh, so it meant a lot. I mean, it's the first IPL win. They won a WPL last year, uh, which is the Women's Family League. So, I mean, the, the narrative here is more about, oh, it's a non-core asset. We need to get out of this. It has done its job but now it's a time to sort of reevaluate the portfolio and see which way this is going. Of course there are. Issues regarding, oh, you know, so is is aging and he underpins the brand and, he's not a shoe in, for the next cycle of contracts. All of those are not material to why Diagio is selling RCB. I Exploring a sale. I think that's, that's, the more accurate way of putting it. Their net debt rose from, I mean, from 19.6 billion in 2024 to 21.5 billion by made 2025. uh,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Of interesting that they own it in the first place, isn't it? Diageo? Getting to them as a IPL owner. I'm, if I knew that or not. Whether or not they were an owner or, and I, I'm wondering why. Obviously it's, you know, we know the arguments about the IPL and the asset appreciation over time and all those things, but it's a thing for them. I mean, why did they do it in the first place, I guess is the question.
Venkat Ananth:So they inherited the IPL, the franchise after, vi Jamalia, the original loaner of, of the Bangal franchise. Uh, he had to sell the company and I think they, they acquired a majority stake in the company and they sort of inherited the franchise. And there was enough chatter at that time that, you know, what will they do? I mean, do they really wanna do it? These are, it's actually a London listed alcohol joint. Uh, where does the IPL and, and, and especially. The RCB fit into their thesis, but at the time I think they just, wanted to take a fresh look at the franchise, see what they could do with it. And I think what they have done with it is to stick around and, invest time, effort, energy into it. And, they've reaped the rewards of that by, these successive titles. But at the same time, it was absolutely non-core. I mean, they are, they're at the, they are in the, in the business of selling Bombay, SAP fires and, and Johnny Walkers. Is it? And India is also a big market for them. I mean, obviously India is one of the largest, if not the largest consumer of, uh, of spirits by volume. By taking RCB off their books, they could, they could definitely double down on, on this market, which is now. Moving towards more premiumization as we call it, where, we are sort of preferring the, the more expensive boost to, you know, to the cheaper ones, uh, local ones here. They put a lot of money into the women's team, for example. I mean second highest if I'm not mistaken, after, after the Adani. So to that extent, I would say they've done a very good job with the franchise and I think they've taken it to the level they could and especially with the conditions that they face back home. With shareholders, not very happy. I mean, they're, I think they sh last week, I, I read somewhere that their shares sunk to a 10 year low. It was inevitable that, that, that RCB would be looked at among many other assets. I mean, there was some story I read during research for this particular story that, uh, that, that they were looking to sell Guinness. And I, I'm like, come on man. You can't, I mean, you can't be serious about it. I mean, and especially because they sold the brewery in, in Africa.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Guinness is more
Venkat Ananth:Uh,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:to di Azure than a cricket team. Okay, so we've got this situation where there's a lot of money various funds around the
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:American private equity we're seeing this almost on a weekly basis, a new fund appearing and it's looking at sport and IPL is looked on very favorably. And I like the phrase IPL curious, I'm gonna steal that. You've got these eight. The first eight franchises and you've got these two new ones, of which luck now is one. So if we look at the, the, the sort of rationale behind selling a 15%, I think is, is it 15 or 20% that they're looking to sell?
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. That's 15%.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Kyle Jordan, family office who are looking at bringing together a consortium of, uh, investors that are
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:gonna look to, to buy it. So you've got a lot of moving parts there, and I can, you can sort of see, actually, I understand why you would want an IPL franchise and why you would then, you know, try and raise money in that way. You start to then say, right, okay, why are they selling at this point? So when you look at, is it RPSG and is that Sanjeev
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:how do I pronounce that?
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. Sanjeev. That's Sanjeev Goenka. Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:they bought the franchise in 2021. They were the first buyers of it, presumably. They were the, that was the, the initial,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:were the, sort of additional franchise
Venkat Ananth:Yes,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:it for nine 30 million. now in that, obviously they are then borrowing money to, to get that. So they're under the sort of cosh, they've got a, a big upfront fee to the BCCI. initially you've got an annual franchise fee of, I think of it's about 85 million
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:And then you've gotta
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. 85.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:operating costs to running the team. So you've got this,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:uh, and that's debt financed and at some point they wanna relieve the debt and this is
Venkat Ananth:Yes,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:about. So they're gonna sort of say, right,
Venkat Ananth:yes,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:20% of the franchise that we can then offload and get new money in. Essentially, that's what's happen.
Venkat Ananth:yes, That's absolutely correct. Nailed on.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:what is it? I'm just trying to sort and, and then you flip over to the Jordan group. So again, I didn't really,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:of, I obviously knew who Eddie Jordan was, but, they bought London Irish Club in 2025, which has dropped out of the rugby premiership. They've got a right, a French rugby club, as Bezier, my French is terrible as Bezier Hero in 2024.
Venkat Ananth:I,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:And now they're looking for a piece of
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:franchise. So let's talk about them for a minute. And they are gonna run
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:as a sort of fund, to me.
Venkat Ananth:It does. And I sort of tried to connect the dots about what they try and do. Uh, it's a great entry point for them. I mean, if, if this deal gets finalized, it's a phenomenal entry point for a little loan, uh, British family. Office, into our investment vehicle as it's officially called, into the glitz and the glamor of the IPL. It's literally you know, a seat at the table. You get to mix around with some of India's most influential business leaders, sports leaders, maybe politicians, uh, since most of them held the BCCI as well. So, it's a fascinating entry point, and I think maybe picking, uh, a franchise like Luck Now, which is, which is still at its nascency, I would say, smart idea. This is an expansion franchise. It, it gives them visibility into the league, into how it works, and probably sets them up for something more in in the future. I mean,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:it gives it, I
Venkat Ananth:uh, I think.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:it's not like a European football club where you've got promotion relegation. You've got huge risk.
Mike Jakeman:No.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:You are,
Venkat Ananth:No,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:are guaranteed,
Venkat Ananth:it's not.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:money
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:at the beginning of every year. You've got a cut of the central revenues. got a sort of
Venkat Ananth:Yes,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:to then go and attack. So there's a lot to like about it from an investment
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. Uh, there's, I think the fact that it's a stable leak, it's not a dynamic, I guess, what you guys call a static league and not dynamic league with no allocation. And promotion means, you get a fixed revenue, a percentage of the cent, you know, of the overall PCCS revenue, every year. And I think That is very encouraging for any investor to come in. I mean, there are no, uh, no issues like, you know, what happens with say, parachute payments with the Premier League and all of those. So I think those are fairly important factors for anyone looking to bind an IPL team or into an IPL team. Yeah,
Mike Jakeman:wages are at a relatively predictable and much
Venkat Ananth:yeah,
Mike Jakeman:level than you find in
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Mike Jakeman:British and European sports.
Venkat Ananth:That's correct. Absolutely. So that's that set your revenue set. I think it's just a great entry into, uh, into this country. And I think it's a, it's an important, it's, it's, it will grow over time, over a period of time as an important market,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:so the money, if you are sitting on, tens of millions of, of dollars and you want into the, i, you know, now who doesn't want into an IPL franchise?'cause all the, as we say, all the, the story of it is very positive. there's a challenge in terms of the way in which it's being financed and how they're choosing to, to finance that money, would think that A-F-I-P-L franchise would go like that because of all the stories and the reasons that we've, we've discussed. Across a very, varied sports investment
Venkat Ananth:Hmm.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:The IPL is always held up as one of these, you know, it's a sort of Pacific Ocean property. There's only 10 of them, and you know, that the value is, is going to continue to rise because of all the optics that we've, uh, we talk about a lot. So I think there's
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:on there about how they're raising the money.
Venkat Ananth:look, I think, uh, I think Richard, uh. I don't think it should be that hard, to get the money in. I mean, it's, it's not, it's, I was, I was told about how easy this is gonna be for RCB. I mean, you just do this, this, this, and then, I mean, we'll get to that. They'd be like four, five investors. We just, you know, willing to put in, oh, here, here, take my money, 400 million here. And that's, that's not how it works. But, but at a, at a quantum that,, that LA now is raising, I don't think it should be that difficult or for backfilling should be quite easy. And even the leverage should not be that, heavy. So I think with, with RCB the challenge is, is a lot more. But with, with Jordan and, uh, LA now, I think, I think they're okay. I mean, what my sources told me, what was that they have to, so they have about a hundred million in, in commitment already. The Jordan guys. Uh, and then the rest will be backfilling. So, uh, which I think is interesting. It's, it's, I think it's very similar to a traditional fund, which is where you have LPs and
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Yeah.
Venkat Ananth:and, you know, and, and the operating partners and, it's the price you pay to enter this leak. So, yeah.
Mike Jakeman:two deals together kind of, sort of represent the end of one trend and the start of another one. So the, the trend that's ending perhaps, I think something that's lasted. A decade or so, basically since, Loader Commission, uh, required the VCCI to, to impose a lot of
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Mike Jakeman:improve the standards of governance and financial reporting and the way that the IPL is
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Mike Jakeman:to, to lift it to kind of an equivalent standard to other leagues around the world that are comparable in, in, in size. And this, these deals together with the success of the expansion franchises in 2022 feels to me like, yes, this league is, this is the real deal. This is attractive, this is built on genuine financial performance and, it's credible. And now we're kind of open to institutional capital from around the in. People would like to invest in the b.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:The other thing Mike though, is
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:if you're looking at the key point is 2027 because the media rights come up
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:in 2027. And if you look at, there's two things, two sort of red flags, there's very few red flags around the IPL as an investment and as we've said, but if you are looking at this and saying, right, okay, well why would you just pause a moment on this? And one is the geo star. Because I think Geo Star, what, what that's done is
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:the a sort of bid in the marketplace. So the worry if I'm a franchise owner is that actually there is a, there is less competitive tension in the domestic Indian rights market for these rights.
Venkat Ananth:absolutely.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:as we know, the domestic rights are pretty much all of it. So I think it's only 2% is overseas, right? So the
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:rights deal is the absolute cake of this. Everything else is a cherry but if you look at the number that, so, luck Now is now was bought for nine 30 in 2021. It's now valued at 1.3 billion, which is a sort of equivalent with the Goodger app number, the CVC sale. So they're, they're saying, right, it's worth that now, but that is predicated on a 40% markup and look and is basically saying, yeah, but 2020 seven's coming and you're gonna get a massive uptick in the media rights. And the only thing I can think that actually that would make me pause is, yeah, but is the media rights market still gonna deliver in the same way?
Venkat Ananth:Yeah, so that's the, that's a$10 billion question, if I could frame it that way. Uh, nobody knows. I mean, obviously there is, there are options, uh, at play and various forces at play here right now. Uh, you saw this deal, uh, the last, the last ride cycle was. I think 50, uh, sorry,$5.8 billion. Uh, it was predicated on, on three season. So three seasons of 74 matches, uh, one season of 84 matches and one, and the last season being 94 matches. Uh, we are still stuck in the 74 matches phase right now. Uh, the word I'm getting is that maybe this year there'll be a 90, uh, 84 match season, uh, which I think will be interesting. I mean, it, it, it follows the schedule, but at the same time, uh, I think what is of more concern to all of us, and I think to should be of concern to folks watching the sport. And the business of the IPL, is the fact that I think the consolidation has taken up, has taken off, uh, a competitor from the market. Uh. So you're not gonna see somebody who's willing to pay very cookie dollars to sort of, you know, get the, uh, you know, valuation up. Uh, but hey, at the same time, I think if you look at the other side, I mean, what is stopping newer interns from entering the field, for example, what, what if an Apple wants to, you know, wants to get in? What if an Amazon wants to get in? What if a Netflix, uh, which is rather high on sports now, uh, you know, wants to get in? I mean, there are, I mean, India is a ready made market. Uh, India is a very ready market for these, I mean, for these companies to just come in and, oh, hey, what about YouTube? I mean, we are a, you know, we have four 50, 500 million users, uh, you know of
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:not
Venkat Ananth:or maybe more and just,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:fees. YouTube, they're,
Venkat Ananth:yeah, but, but, but it's a trade off, right? It's a, it's, no, it's a bit of a trade off. I mean, what they get from here, or, or they could just upsell maybe premium for all, the biggest concern for these franchise owners is, I think at the very least, it should not get devalued. 5.8 billion, uh, anything is an improvement. Uh, but they wouldn't mind something of a 10, 20% upside, on the existing price. That, that would, that would be a massive number. and the second part that you said, the second headwind that you highlighted, which is advertising. I think that is a bit of a bummer right now because, uh, it's, you know, one categories of the market. These guys were spending close to, I don't know, 400 million,$500 million, uh, every year on, on, on sport in general. Not just, not just cricket about say, 3000 crows.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:What is a, so the RCB, the Royal Challengers, Bangalore, what's their valuation at the
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:they're looking at about a 2 billion. I'm trying to sort of
Venkat Ananth:So,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:to the
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:and then there's another question about what the addition of the a hundred franchisees means in terms of the total valuation of everything and whether that's
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:of the same thing. But anyway, just let's, trying to get to a league table of value. Within the IPL, so you've only got 10 franchises and we know, you know, we only know what's real when some estate gets sold. So this is why this is an interesting story.
Venkat Ananth:I think we don't know the real valuations of these franchises. I mean, we just, we just use markers, whether it is T-C-F-E-B, ebitda, all of those usual, usual valuation techniques. look, I think with, with RCBI read a Jeffrey report, which I referenced in my story, uh, which, which assumes a certain percentage of, USL shares, or the share price, uh, for RCB. And it sort of assigns that share value about 1 32 rupees per share in somewhere in September. That gives us a valuation of what,$1.2 billion? That's at the lower end, I would say. I mean, for me, if you look at all of those scarcity premium, you add all of those usual markers in rad coli. Yeah, looking at about 1.3, 1.4 billion as a fair, as a fair price, I would be very surprised if RCB sells for certainly the$2 billion. But, uh, my number, and I've, I've waged a few bucks on this, uh, would be somewhere around 1.5 to 1.7. I think that reflects, that reflects them as a franchise that 20 years, uh, of, of just building brand, of just building, uh, an audience, just building, uh, a proper team that could, that could, you know, that could, I mean, that was not winning matches, but was, was constantly in the news. I mean, it was, it's such a meme franchise, RCB, uh, it's, it's, it's amazing. I mean, you, I guess you gotta be here to know what it is like, uh. I think it, it is a fair price that reflects who they are. Uh, it has to certainly be about expansion franchises, so it cannot be 1.3 or it cannot be 1.2. So I'm looking at a number of around 1.5 to 1.7 that that, that I think it'll go for. Uh, which is, which is which I think is a comfort price, sort of, uh, maybe a comfort price for most folks. I don't know about Diageo, but at least, uh, the, the chatter I've been picking around is, uh, is around this number, is around this, this 1.5 to 1.7. I think it's a, there's no hard stop anyway. I mean, it could go, I mean, we'd love to see it go for 2.5 billion because that, that, that puts it among other leagues.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Yeah.
Venkat Ananth:But to your question about. A league table. It's hard to look past the China Super kings and the Mumba Indians as, probably table topers there. But what all we know is that the valuation of these franchises as compounded, expanded subsequently and sequentially with media rights, uh, and sponsorship coming in. So
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:those two franchises, but they're just, the fact that they are the, the extent the two later franchises, they, they're not the eight of the eight originals. You would imagine that those brands have been able to solidify the, you know, in terms of the market and my assumption is that their
Venkat Ananth:yes,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:be higher than the two that have, you know, good you at and, uh, and luck
Venkat Ananth:yes. But what Gura has, has in it Kitty is, and IPL win in, in an, it's de season. It, it played the finals in the following year. Uh, it is, it is a high profile franchise in the sense that it, it represents a seat of PA now in India, which is, which is ra. So I think they, and, and it also has access to the largest stadium in the world, which is the NAR Modi Stadium. Uh, so to that extent, it has a lot of, lot of interesting pull factors, uh, but obviously. It is, it is also, I mean, the hello in that sense is, is also stripped because it's not the original eight franchise. Right. I mean, that's, that's the, that'll always be part of it. But, uh, it's an interesting franchise and I think they've, they've, they're now building a brand around the Indian captain, which is the Chu gi Indian, ODI, and, uh, and our captain certainly, uh, Shipman Guil. So I think there are, there are opportunities there. I mean, uh, but it'll, at this point of time, it's, it's nowhere close to the original, uh, at least the original top 2, 3, 4 franchises. I mean, Raja, tan Kings Dev, and Punjab, some of those, uh, are not exactly high value in that sense, but they are very important in terms of the fact that, again, it's an entry point into the IPL. Uh, and hopefully you'll read more about them in the, in the coming days
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Mike.
Venkat Ananth:the state of play.
Mike Jakeman:With this, the, the, so the luck now deal, and the fact that we're selling off a, a small stake, when sports franchises tend to cross the, you know, the billion dollar mark mean this is, this is now serious money. and inevitably in, in
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Mike Jakeman:for example, now we're seeing a relatively high volume of, uh, minority stakes in N-B-A-N-F-L, uh, MLB teams now. And that's
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Mike Jakeman:rules are changing to permit more foreign investment. But it's also because these things are now so
Venkat Ananth:Yes.
Mike Jakeman:that it's the number of potential buyers of an entire franchise really small. You know, there, there are, there are, you know,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Mike Jakeman:many people that can and wanna spend
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Mike Jakeman:a billion dollars on a sports team. so does that mean that what we're seeing in now where you want to get, you want to bring either new expertise or a bit of financial, uh, easing into the, the franchise? Are we gonna just see more and more and more of this, over the next five years? And if so, does it matter to the IPL if the ownership structure of most of these franchises is diluted across, many different investors in from lots of different places.
Venkat Ananth:Uh, I don't think so. I think, I think absolutely. I, I totally agree with you that I think you're gonna have, I mean, even, even with this RCB sale, we've been literally counting in our hand, in our hands how many people can actually buy the whole thing. And, and it's, I mean, that it's not that much. I mean that's, that's the whole, whole, whole situation here. But you will see a lot more of this coming because I, you know, like I also said upfront, there is, there's a certain maturity that the IP has reached where I think con uh, it's a stable league. Owners feel very confident of, uh, the model, the business model is fairly proven, uh, there and I think there's also firm belief that it can only go upwards from here. Uh, it's, uh, I mean, obviously we'll see in 27 where that, where that stacks up, but at the same time, I would say that, uh, I think there is, there will be some owners that will also want to cash out, having done their time dug in, uh, spend 20 years just being in there and, and those times will come, maybe not, maybe not right now, but maybe over the next five years you will see a lot more of these small, small deeds happening. The IPL will become more receptive to some of these deals, uh, about external investment. Uh, I mean, we are already hearing about sovereign funds and all of that. I mean, the usual, it's, it's, it's amazing, right? Whenever there's a sports franchise on sale, the usual PIF, the Qatar Investment Authority, the. You know, whatever, the bar in Investment Authority, all of these guys seem to sort of emerge out of nowhere as, as,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Hmm.
Venkat Ananth:as front runners
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:that question of the, the international expansion, and again, if I'm looking at this, if I'm an investor and I'm thinking, okay, yeah,
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I want into the ward garden of the IPL, you've got me, I've got, I, you know, I'm gonna buy there. And
Venkat Ananth:Yes.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:like one of the best bets I'm gonna make in the sports industry. Okay. I can buy a, a minority partnership, an NBA franchise, I can go to the NFL.
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:IPL is in that of, very super elite investment opportunities. as soon as you start saying to me, and you are gonna get a share of the team in Manchester, which has never made a profit. You are gonna be funding for a very, you
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:period of time before it does. It's got a lot of money gonna have to be invested in that franchise. you are
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:the South African League or the Big Bash, or you're gonna go to the, you're gonna be on the ride that is the American market. All of which, if I, again, if I'm an investor, which is purely about making more money from the money that I've got, thinking, yeah, just hold that a minute. You have me and now you are starting to lose me again. I think that's a, a
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:you know, we talk a lot about it from the cricket perspective, but actually from an investment point of view that ain't my direction to make more money. What do you think about that? Because I think there's a. if if I'm searching for red flags of an IPL franchise investment, expansion might be one of them.'cause I think it's still unproven, as a cricket product, but certainly as a investment product.
Venkat Ananth:Look, I don't, I mean, I don't think, the quantum is that much, in terms of investment. So it's, it's not, it's not something that they, that investors need to be looking at upfront. I think they're buying into the Ipil franchise. And in, in Jordan's case, they have a board seat. I mean, which is what I've written about as well, which is an important, right. subject to this deal being completed. I mean, you're sounding as if it's done, but, uh, no, I think, uh, look, I think from an expansion perspective, it's very early days. I we've just seen South Africa. US looks incredibly exciting. But RPSG is not around. RCB does not even have an expansion team. I mean, they have, Focused so much in India that they've chosen to spend the money on a women's franchise, which I thought was incredibly smart given what just happened here. I mean, uh, uh,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:bet. The women's IPL is really valuable'cause they've done a really great media rights deal. So there will be money,
Venkat Ananth:yeah, Yeah. It's not saturated. There's fresh inventory there. There's a, there's, there's a lot of excite, genuine excitement about women's cricket right now in India. I mean, uh, extremely, you know, thanks to the World Cup win.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:though, wasn't it?
Venkat Ananth:Uh, and obviously I think
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:before the World Cup. I mean, it's a, it is a fantastic
Venkat Ananth:it.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:but
Venkat Ananth:Yeah, it was absolutely there, but, but India, but, but you know, where I'm coming from with the Women's World Cup is, or, or the women's whatever, PME League is, the fact that India were never seen as, as sort of the leaders in this movement. It was always the Big Bash, the hundred, or you had, I don't know, there was a Vitality Cup or something in, uh, in England, which, you know, which, where North and South play against each other, some of those. Uh, so, but then this, this, it was like a perfect storm, right? I mean, something had to come together and I think the, the WPL L made that possible. And I think I've written in my next story in my, in my, in my Women's World Cup story about how investment in the WPL actually has paid off. Uh, it, and, and I think for once, uh, we had, we had a win, uh, a win because of the system rather than, you know, you win and then you. And then you create a system, right? So I think that was, that was, that was a key takeaway. And I think RCB now with Smithy Manana there, with Elise Perry, I mean, it's, it's actually like a galactic horse of, uh, of, of the women's game right there in that franchise. I mean, they, they seem to, they seem to gain most of it. I think it was a very smart move. I agree. I think the fact that they didn't, they didn't follow the trend and go abroad. But I would imagine why doesn't, I mean, if you look at, if you look at why does an IPL team invest in these markets, uh, other than the public ish, oh, we want to, you know, expand, uh, and promote. You know, the sport in these countries and all that, it's very simple. It's, it's for year long visibility, which I think is, is extremely important. Uh, and of course early access to talent, uh, which is not a guarantee. But I think with now the professional scouting architecture that IPL teams have put in, in place, uh, having a franchise in South Africa, in England, I'm talking about the Mumbai Indians, for example, in the US in the Middle East. They're just spread everywhere. That access to ground level talent, that access to, to talent sporting, I think is a, uh, is, is extremely lucrative. Uh, and, and it's something that most, most other franchises want. So, well, I think it is a cost. I mean, when you're going abroad, uh, and especially in places like the a hundred where you are very early into the, uh, into the. Into the concept rather than even the tournament. I mean, it's a, it's a serious cost. So, uh, but how do I see this going forward? If I'm an investor looking at IP franchise, I will not bother too much. I won't be worked up by the cost of the expansion parts because they're usually funded from the IPL, uh, operational income that they get from the BCCI. Most of it, I would say, uh, it's not that much of a worry yet, uh, until of course, some of these leagues turned out to be un uh, unsustainable. I mean, there's also a, a sort of a, a hierarchy forming in these leagues, right? I mean, at this point of time there's, there's a competition globally to sort of become the number two. And, uh, I think by hedging your bets everywhere, uh, you can actually end up. You know, end up, end up having a team in the, in the most important league and the second most important league in the world. I mean, which is not a bad idea. I mean, which is somewhat wa somewhat aligns with what Manchester City are trying to do, but it, but not in the big leagues.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I.
Venkat Ananth:Uh, so I I I don't think it's that that critical to their framework yet, but if these leaks take off, it could actually become a serious, I mean, why would a Mumbai Indians not want to invest in the Big Bash, for example, when it opens up? Uh, it's not a matter of if anymore I'm told. So, uh, when it does open up, it's a great opportunity. I mean, it's a phenomenal opportunity to sort of own a franchise there. You're visible there. Uh, you also have a team in South Africa, which is ly playing. Now how you rotate your personnel is gonna come down to that, especially OCS players. You tie them on to year long contracts, and that's
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Yeah.
Venkat Ananth:topic for a different conversation. But I think it's, it's important to see the outlook for these ipil franchises, especially when they're going abroad, what they actually want out of it. Uh, I think at this point of time, I think they just wanna flag, plant and be part of the league, uh, leagues there. And, uh, that's, that's pretty much what they're doing. So,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:of investors who will have different risk profiles or different attitudes to the expansion There'll be, there'll be conservatives who want No, we just, let's keep it narrow you know, it, it's a great product and let's just keep it like that and there'll be expansionists to see the, the global picture. So I think it'd be interesting to sort of monitor over time.
Venkat Ananth:I mean, you've seen that with CVC Richard, you've seen that with CVC. RA didn't go and buy, a hundred franchise or. Or a South African franchise. I mean the, the classic private equity in that sense, right? I mean, let's, let's build this out first. Same with R-C-B-M-R-C. Look, at the end of the day, you gotta think of an alcohol brand as an alcohol brand, which, which primarily targets 18 to 35 male male customers. It's a consumer brand. It gains nothing by going abroad. I mean, even I thought about the fact, oh, you know, why can't they go to England? I mean, they have, you know, Bombay supplier, they could do whatever they want with those brands there, but then you, you
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I remember in the early days of brand content conversation, we would quite often people would say, do you know what? I think Coca-Cola will buy Man United? You know, that sort of thing. You say, right, okay. They're gonna move to the middle of content. As advertising becomes irrelevant, the, the content becomes the thing, and the brands will want to own the content in the old, you know, so the old soap opera
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:rather than just play product placement, they will own. Stuff,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:happened. It might, you know, who knows, but that question of Diageo owning an IPL franchise, I think is a really interesting one. As you say, it feels like there's a lot of, a legacy story there in terms of how they got to where they were. again, it's like, you know, what does the money want? And there'll be a meeting at some point at Diageo and say, do you know what, have we ever wondered why we own, we own an IPL franchise?
Venkat Ananth:No, I'm sure. Look, I think, look, I think, I mean that, that, that meeting probably may have happened, I would say, about
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Yeah. Yeah.
Venkat Ananth:six months ago, uh, when you had the intern.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:and they'll say, you know, oh, well, you know,
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:are good at, we're really good at brewing and making sort of drinks, but let's.
Venkat Ananth:And good at running an a, you know, franchise as well. I mean, they know how to how to sell tickets. They have the highest or highest in the country in terms of field rates. They are phenomenally good at, at brand building, as I would suppose an alcohol brand is.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:be
Venkat Ananth:Uh, they, they,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:this is my Dan Snyder point, which is that he owned the Washington Redskins, the worst owner in the NFL's history. Made every
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:wrong
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:made fortunes. I think it's quite hard to muck up an
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:franchise. You've gotta go quite a long way. You've gotta be a particularly incompetent business person to, to not make money from an IPL franchise. I think it's, there's so much of it handed to you
Venkat Ananth:Yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:to running a European football club.
Venkat Ananth:to be fair to RCB, I think they've, they've ticked all the boxes. They've tried to innovate, for example, in an interview last week. Uh, I, I, I mean last year to me, or earlier this year, rather. Uh, the CEO actually wanted to, or the COO rather, I mean he's the CEO right now, or the CEO, I don't know. Uh, the RCB guy, uh, well, Rajesh Mannan, he, he actually told me they were in talks with the state association to see if they could increase or increase the capacity of, of, of the stadium. They finally looked like one of the franchises was trying to take some ownership of, of the asset, which they don't own right now. Uh, they've introduced, say, uh, I think dynamic pricing, uh,
Mike Jakeman:Yep.
Venkat Ananth:you, you know, at the stadiums, which I think is quite innovative in that sense. So I think they've been very, very, very consumer focused, right? I mean, that's, that's who they are at the end of the day. But, and I, and I do think, you know, Richard, that conversation would've happened at the DRG headquarters in London. That, what the hell are we doing with an IPL team? but they also see the upside. I mean, it, it, it contributes a lot of money to their, you know, to the top line and to the bottom line, both. So I think having considered all that, and my hunch is they would've hedged the fact that, hey, you know, it's a good time to get out. We've, we've done 18 solid years, or 20 years or whatever years in this, in this league. we've seen the ups and the downs and well, we, we saw the ups, and, and the next day we saw the downs with the, with the stampede deaths. that, that, that rather killed people here, sadly. and, and I think it's, it's not a bad time to sort of, to exit stage, and to hand this over to somebody else. So I think. I think they have done. Okay. Or as a franchise, I would say they have done really well. They've proven that they can own an I team.
Mike Jakeman:one of the big.
Venkat Ananth:I think so. I think, yeah, I think it'll take time. it'll take its time. I mean, the information I have is that, that, and, and, and maybe this is an exclusive for you, is the fact that, they, they have just about started issuing the information on memorandums, that, that goes out to bankers and stuff. we should be seeing some consortiums forming because this is gonna be a consortium sale. I don't, I heavily doubt it's gonna be individual sale, unless it's Elon Musk or somebody else just comes and say, Hey, here's my,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:You'll,
Venkat Ananth:my 2 billion. Dig it.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:you mentioned you, you nearly sounded earlier in the conversation when you started to talk about Netflix and Amazon, and that's, that's what people on
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:in the media rights sales teams, quite often, they like to populate these conversations running into a revenue, you know, a, a media rights renegotiation. They like to throw in those names because it feels like there's a pot boiling of, of, you know, vibrant sellers. You,
Venkat Ananth:yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:at the moment, U AFA have just come out, they packaged something almost tailor made for Netflix, and Netflix didn't show up, you know, so it was quite a,
Venkat Ananth:yeah. They didn't show up.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:load of, what my colleague on the bundle podcast, Murray Barnett, always calls Fluffers, who are, who are, whose role in the marketplace is just to keep those stories bubbling.
Venkat Ananth:Yeah. I think, I think you wanna see that here as well. I mean, they, we already, like, when I met some folks in Bombay, I think one of the conversations was about how they can. Mirror the NFL to some extent, where they, where they unbundle a little, uh, you know, unbundle, especially these, these weekend daytime matches. Maybe double headers are an option by themselves. There could be some innovation happening there. Uh, I would imagine. So I think that, that all of that adds up eventually, but at the same time, uh, I think you'll, you'll, by this time next year, I can comfortably say that SAP will be sold. I think everything will take its own pace. Uh, but yeah, you're right. 2026, it, it, it, it will be one of the biggest sports stories of the year, uh, to that extent. I think it's inevitable. And obviously it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's actually an IPL exit, right? I mean, it's, we, we've not seen a full exit, uh, with the franchise other than, uh, those that have been suspended or, you know, just. Or whatever you call defunct or, uh, some of those ones, but we've never seen a, a proper sale. So I think this would, this will be one of those,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:as well, all three of us
Venkat Ananth:let's say
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:the, the joy of a 2020, you know, a year ahead preview podcast that you have to get together and you have to then find stories that you are gonna say, right, this is gonna happen in 2026. I think an IPL exit is a nice, nice prediction. I think
Venkat Ananth:it is.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:his predict, you know, when we do the 2026 preview, we'll allocate these, but, we'll, one of the, the IP an IPL exit in 2026 is quite a nice one.
Venkat Ananth:And IP exit in 2026 is, I'm sorry to take your time, Mike, but is on the cards. Uh, prob. Who knows? Maybe one more. Who knows? I mean, I'm, I'm not gonna stick my neck out, but, uh, we don't know. I mean, there, there could be one more. Uh, it's, it's not out of, I mean, it's not out of bounds.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:outta the IPL. There's your, there's your headline.
Venkat Ananth:I think it, no, it's, no, I don't think it's out of the IPL as much as, you know, like, you know, to quote that guy that, that, that, that everyone wants in now. Everyone wants in, who wants out? Because there are only 10 seats. Right? And, and, and, and if you have only 10 seats, you have to pay absurd price to come in. And, and, uh, to me, I think there's an opportunity there, uh, for, for some of these smaller franchises, smaller in, I mean, not smaller in terms of, uh, in terms of their appeal, but some of these franchisees maybe think, you know what, we've done this for 20 years. You know, a Saudi guy comes in or, uh, or a Qatari guy comes in. What do you say? You don't say no.
Mike Jakeman:Be
Venkat Ananth:Uh,
Mike Jakeman:people coming in and.
Venkat Ananth:yeah. Yeah. It is, it is. The big takeaway for me is about suddenly how mature I, you know, the IPL has, has become that we are having this conversation in the first place. I mean, uh, you, you always look at IPL teams as, as mullets either, either run by a consortium or by a, uh, a conglomerate or by an individual or, you know, whatever. Uh, but suddenly you're now looking at it for as, as, as a mature asset class that, that someone could actually use, uh, gain entry into the Indian market because it's, it's three months of just
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Yeah.
Venkat Ananth:air time, which, which you will never get any other, you know, any other time of the year. It's just amazing because you are, you are there every other day. Uh, what sort of sport gives you that and what sort of league gives you that? So I think definitely, I mean, I, I'm kind of surprised that the likes of Apollo and the likes of Todd Boley and his partner at the 10 billion NBA franchise haven't quite looked at, or maybe they have, uh, we don't know yet.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:lots of people
Venkat Ananth:Uh,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I think, you know.
Venkat Ananth:and given the fact that he's, he's entered the hundred, uh, it's a huge clue about where he is about to go next,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:Right. Venkat you, you are now officially our IPL business, correspondent. the, uh, on inside edge, we've been, we've been searching for someone to bring
Venkat Ananth:I'm on a,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:from the Indian market because I think a lot of the time we, we talk about this
Venkat Ananth:yeah.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:in terms of, you know, it's, and business journalism is a bit like this anyway. You, you can feel at arms length sometimes that you, you're not close to it and it starts to become a, you, you start to talk like an investor, you know, you start to say, oh, well, you know, these signs are, you know, positive, but you're not close enough to really get the, get a sense of it. And in a way that we are, you know, around European football. And I always think about this in the American market. I just think, I sort of know about the NFL and the NBA and MLB as a business, and I understand the American model and I've, you know, but I don't really get it. You know, I don't breathe it in the
Venkat Ananth:Yeah,
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:I'm not in the room. Well, you know, I mean, very few rooms these days, but I, uh, yeah, I, uh, I thank you so much Venkat. Really enjoyed the, uh, conversation.
Venkat Ananth:no problem. It was my pleasure. It was, I hope I didn't drone on and on, which is, which is often the concern that I have when I'm doing these podcasts.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:is
Venkat Ananth:Uh, I.
Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:you know, it's a sort of formalized droning on