Unofficial Partner Podcast

UP525 What Just Happened in 2025: The Story, Event and Person of the Sports Business Year

• Richard Gillis

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David Cushnan and James Emmett of Leaders in Sport join Richard on the final podcast of the year to review the people, stories and events that mattered in 2025.


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Hello there. Welcome to the final episode of Unofficial Partner for 2025. And it's a review. Of course. It's a review So this is what just happened with David Cushman, James Emmett, both from leaders in sport. Who, join me for a look back at the year in the sports business. Happy Christmas. Thanks for listening, and see you in 2026

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

so did we agree a format?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Is,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

the job,

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

an existential question, rich.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

the job,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Do you mean?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

job as, as far as I could see it, is to look back at 2025 and my thought was rather than just one, you know, normally what just happened, we bring a story each, but didn't feel that was enough for a whole year. So what have I got? story, person event.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

like the way you describe it as, as the job, as if some higher body sort of asked us, instructed us to do this.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I know

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

it,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

she's completely of our own will.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

things each rich, and I dunno if you're, you probably don't have the sort of memory span for this, but we, we attempted this last year, do you remember? And

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

did the three, it was called.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. But we each. Brought three things once, and I think we got through roughly two and a half of them.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I know. Well, I sense we're much more efficient now. I think we're, we're sort of so much better at this job than we were even six months

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Hmm. Say, say a little bit. Say a little bit more about that sense.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

and where that sense, the source of that sense.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Hmm.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

There's a, there's, so I, I'm gonna ask each of you, IE both of you, what your three things are and, or should I read them? cause you've told me ahead of time on our shared WhatsApp group.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

we can read them out. We can read them out if you want, so you can read them out. That's basically the question

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

story, event person of 2025. David Kushner. Go.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

story. mark Goldbridge taking some Bundas legal live rights,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Okay. Event

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I am going with the F1 movie Premier in Times Square.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

in person.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I am going for Vic Cram Banerjee.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Ah, intriguing choice. Recent Unofficial Partner, guest, James Emmett

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Well,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

story.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

of clarification here, rich. You did, you did ask us to bring a story a person, an event, and a person each, but absolutely no context attached to how we're choosing these. So I'm assuming it's sort of,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I'm sure Richard, you'll put that in the show notes.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I'm sure. I assume it's sort of things that we think were relatively important this year.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah, I, yes, I think that's fair. Or things that stood out or things that. You thought represented something

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Or just some or just some things to fill maybe an hour of audio.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

something to talk about.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Okay. Story. The NBA pulling together a new European League,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yes.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

event, the FIFA Club World Cup.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

See, I purposely didn't do that one, so I gave you a bit of space, bit of breathing, room bit laban's, valve

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

do anything. We, David and I submitted our choices before you

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

and person.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

marina Ty, the chief executive of WTA Ventures.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Right. Okay. And my story is Warren Buffet's retirement. My event is the Caribou Cup final between Liverpool and Newcastle. And my person, we can't not have him, is Gianni Infantino. So let's start with David Kushman. Let's go. I think we do the stories first, then events, and then people, but I think we'll get confused, but we'll get essentially, we'll, this might become a mishmash, but I'm gonna try and keep them separate.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

suspect we'll get sidetracked. Is that what you're saying?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Well, let's

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yes.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

let's keep laser focused.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Let's try that. So my story, mark Goldbridge creator streamer, the guy you see on the clips shouting when Manchester United can see the goal. Well, he got a bit serious this year, didn't he? And he did a deal with the Bunda League year to broadcast 20 live games, uh, Friday night games from the Bunda League year this season on his, uh, sort of more general football channel. That's football. And so the bigger picture here is this not an entirely new thing, streamers getting into the live rights game, but I definitely think we have seen that trend fueled this year in various markets actually. And there's a, there's a bigger sort of merging of media here that sort of talks to, and maybe we'll come on to talk about it. Podcasts, turning into TV shows,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yep.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

originating on YouTube mainly, but then being you know, picked up elsewhere. And you've got this also, also this this trend that I think we're seeing across media of, of people as the brands, as the media channels rather than institutions.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

But you've also got the, a sort of new generation of institutions, the Netflixes, the Apples of the world who are sort of hovering, waiting to hoover these individuals up and put them back into a sort of big existing media machine as well. So lots in there. But I do think that was one of those stories where everybody raised an eyebrow.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

yeah, yeah. James, what did you think of it?'Cause obviously you've got Cze tv. Is it Cze? Cze Ze tv. And as, david said there sort of this recent lineker rest is deal with Netflix is interesting, but what, what's your, just let's talk about Goldbridge to begin with.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting deal. I think it's broken the seal on these. I, I think we will see more and more of them. Be interested to. I haven't done it, but I would be interested to check in.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

You haven't actually done the work.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I would be interested to check in on the numbers that Goldbridge has been getting because at least after the first couple of rounds of Bundas League of Fixtures, they were not particularly impressive. In fact, industry observers were surprised at how low, the viewing figures were after a couple of games. I think what it does show in all, in all the focus on Goldbridge and you know, who he represents in this sort of new wave of influencer streamer Broad as broadcasters, it does show how bold the Bundesliga and Laga who are also pursuing a similar strategy are being in their. Pursuit of the Premier League as the, you know, that they are definitely behind the Premier League, in terms of international distribution and in playing catch up, they are being innovative, with how they're distributing the rights. Yeah, that's what I think.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

so there's a few things. I think there's, there's a you're right, it was a, it was a really interesting story one is the, the trend itself, and then there's also the, the sort of goldbridge question, which I think it's just sort of worth a bit because I think he's, there is a difference between the rest is football and the Netflix deal.'cause that tho that type of deal is essentially what we're seeing, as you said, is, is sort of podcast, prominent podcast and it's a sort of, you know, a, a hat t to podcast generally as we would say that. But are becoming cheap television and that's why they've mo you know, they push the video and then via YouTube you are then getting, you know, Netflix playing in that, that game. So you've got a, a few different things going on and at the same time. You've got YouTube really pushing hard on wanting to be framed as a television, is hard reasons, commercial reasons of, you know, it wants premium advertisers and it's still seen by premium advertisers as a bit low rent and a bit, you know, there's some great stuff on there, but there's also some really dodgy stuff as well. don't want to associate our brand with it. So that's YouTube's corporate pain and that's what it's been trying to sort of message. It's been pushing for a long time. I think the Goldbridge thing is really interesting because he's sort of, a bit of a pantomime dame figure because he's different than Lineker. So he's, he's a character, you know, he's a sort of persona. He's a guy Dere and. His whole shtick and he's, the reason that he's prominent is that he just flags off Man United when they're losing and it's a great time to be doing that'cause they lose, you know, more than Man United should be losing. So, sort of see him in a particular type. And the question I asked at the time, and the question I still don't know the answer to is whether you can make the transition from being a sort of pantomime dame figure in that way. You know, you are very, it's a personalized it's opinion to more of a channel, which is what Bundas Liga have seemed to have sort of, you know, that's,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

But that, but that,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

they've been in the

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

but that Richard assumes that he wants to do that, or it's, I think that was the traditional route, right? The end game for any of these personalities is to be a. A credible media personality on a credible media platform, but they've, he's already got his media platform. He's already got.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

not that I, I I see what you mean, but I, I'm getting at it actually. not interested in Mark Goldbridge unless he's Slagging Man United or I find it, you know, titillating on TikTok, but I'm not interested in his views on anything else. And that's, so, and I think there's a, you know, the question I guess is, is there an audience beyond the Man United stuff? And the the German deal, you know, the Bundesliga deal. I mean, it was hilarious the way it was sort of overblown at the time. The comms around it and the YouTube lobby got together and said, this is a groundbreaking deal. And I, you know, it's really interesting. there was a guy, and I can't forgetting his name, was it Jordan Schwartzen Berger? Is that, is that the sideman guy? He, he put a thing out saying, a YouTuber just beat out Sky Sports. For Top League Broadcasting rights is, is the future of the Premier League. Bundes, leaguer have just handed this deal to Mark Goldbridge, not just highlights reactions, actual live matches, blah, blah, blah. Now, and the point we made at the time was that, you know, if Sky Sports wanted Friday night, Bundes Bundesliga, they would've bought Friday Night Bundesliga. So there's a hype around this deal, which is really sort of interesting to reflect on. And the question being, is it from the Bundesliga point of view, is that genuinely the future or was it a really nice opportunistic piece of Right sales?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

experimentation, isn't it? I mean, it will be, it's, it's worth peanuts to the Bundesliga and to

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

it, it, it is purely a, a test and learn play. And to your point around Goldbridge being very different from Lineker. Yeah, absolutely. But Goldbridge is definitely, would, would definitely feel like he leans more towards. Caar tv and the thing about it's test and learn for all of them as well, like are they able to, resonate with audiences as new style of broadcaster? The thing that, that that makes Casimiro, the Caza TV guy so successful, pretty much everything he touches turns to gold. because people want to watch him watching sport because he brings passion, energy, and knowledge research to pretty much everything he gets into. It really resonates with his Brazilian. He's on the same level as his audience. Goldbridge is. Reaction video, he is the reaction video trend. And if he, I don't know, I don't watch his coverage of the Bundas Liga, I wouldn't be able to s sort of give

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

own verdict of how he's doing it. But if he's able to translate reaction video goldbridge to the way that he covers the Bunda Leaguer, then I'm sure that will resonate with people.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I've dipped, I've dipped into, I've dipped in, into watching it and he's not, you know.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

research,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. Well I just dipped for professional reasons. I dipped into to watching some of it, and it's worth noting with that Friday night deal, Bundas League also have it on you know, BBC also broadcast it live on their website. Gary Nevilles, the overlap also broadcasts. Its on its YouTube channel. They're just broadcasting the straight World Feed. What Goldbridge is doing is the watch along, but he's not doing it, and he doesn't have, he doesn't support any Buns League club, so he hasn't got the same extreme reactions when a goal goes in, what he's doing. Which I think is quite smart, is he's really put himself in the position of, I dunno, anything about the bun Leaguer. Let's all learn about it together. Let's learn about the players, let's learn about the teams over the course of the season. I think that is quite smart. He came on the podcast during the year and yes, he is, it's fairly clear playing an exaggerated version of himself, a character, whatever you describe it. But he's, he's very switched on. He knows what he's doing. And none of this is, I didn't get the impression any of this was sort of by accident.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

so yes, I thought that was a story worth noting and indeed worth knowing.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

It, it was definitely a story worth noting, right. James Emmett, your story of the year.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

My story is one that continues to bubble along. So it's the NBA pulling together a new European league, a new sort of European offshoot of the NBA. So stories first emerged about this. I think it was January 2025. The NBA was over for Paris Games for games in Paris. And it emerged that during discussions with various entities in Paris, various sort of European, cities and sports entities within those cities, the NBA was cooking up this plan to launch. A a league, some version of a league that would be different to what's currently in Europe, the Euro League. Basically that story sort of un spools across the year. Clearly it's being driven by a tangential story. Maverick Carter business partner of LeBron James secured quite significant financial backing to launch something of his own, some kind of international basketball competition that would, also be in Europe and that would be competitive in some way to the NBA. They're clearly a catalyst to, get this thing going a little bit later in the process and people start talking publicly. 2027 is currently the mooted start date for this league. It's a 16 team model that's being proposed with 12 permanent franchises. The NBA is reportedly looking for between 500 million to$1 billion for fees for these franchises as the story was progressing across the year. Basketball entities were making noises that this was a concerted effort across various stakeholder groups. In basketball, it included the NBA and fiba, which are the two defacto

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Hmm.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

entities in basketball. The NBA, obviously absolutely the most powerful entity in basketball, but also the Euro League, which is the existing, quite kind of preeminent European competition. At some point in those discussions there, there was clearly a split and by the end of the year there, there had. There are definitely two very different positions being taken. The NBA is moving forward with this idea of launching a league in October, 2027. it's targeting January so next month as a point for real progress and to try to tie down some of these franchises which are being mooted for, you know, the biggest cities across Europe. You know, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, Munich, Berlin, London, Manchester, et cetera, et cetera. But the Euro League are now openly and behind closed doors against this proposition. They say there is of course room for cooperation, but there is no need for any new league. The Euro League is the preeminent tournament in Europe. What this means for European basketball and what it means for the NBA are both interesting questions to ponder. It sounds like it will happen. Is it a, is it a feeder league for the NBA? And if so, you know, does the NBA and the owners sort of sanction the top players going to play in this European League? It, and if they don't, it is, it is a feeder league, and if it's a feeder league, the Euro League can justifiably say it is the preeminent competition in Europe. But if it is genuinely integrated into this sort of NBA structure and there's some kind of competitive balance there, it's a, it's potentially a huge shift in the, the landscape, of what is by, by many measures, the second most popular team sport in the world. And it is it, it's clearly a very big opportunity for. Sort of sports cultural megaliths that are emerging. The mega brands in sport, the, the sort

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Hmm.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

city football groups, the Paris Sangerman, you know, the big state backed or billionaire backed entities who want to be in multi-cloud, multi-sport. Just get your brand out everywhere.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

This is a, a potentially huge opportunity for them in the NBA. I think it's an opportunity worth 500 million to a billion dollars for them. So yes, potentially seismic.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I think there's a load in it. David, what do you think?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah, likewise. I think this is gonna be the story of 2026 as well if you exclude the uh, FIFA Men's World Cup. But, I think the, I think James, you hit some two points there that are critical. How do they position this? Because it, it will inevitably when it starts be seen as a feeder league, you can't position it as a feeder league to people in Europe for the reasons you've outlined and also just who wants to watch something that's being described as a feeder league. But you cannot risk for the fans back home in the US them starting to think that they are no longer watching the world's best basketball league back at home. Somebody mentioned to me talking about this, I think round about Leader's week in October that actually, you know, they, they obviously need to get this up and running and see how it flies and there's lots to do'cause it's a very, very short timeframe to do everything they need to do to get it set up. But. Somebody said to me that actually maybe the model, the long term model is the, IS MBA Europe becomes effectively the third conference of the MBA. And you get into a situation, and this may be, this could be decades away, but you get into a situation where on a fairly regular basis, the top teams in the NBA as we know it currently are playing European teams just as part of the sort of regular league structure or a completely revamped league structure. So that might be a sort of distant north star for Adam Silver and the team working on this. I also think the football club bit is, is. Fascinating in this. You've obviously got Rail, Madrid, Barcelona bay Munich you know, the Turkish clubs who are already set up in this, historically, in this multi-sport model. And several of those teams do already play in, in Euro League. So if you can bring them across, if you can throw in a Manchester team linking up with a city football group or who knows, a a, a Jim Radcliffe backed Manchester United basketball operation if you can bring in a PSG. Backed by Qatar. You have suddenly got something really fascinating I think. And I think we've touched on this before, the, the big question mark City, of the ones you mentioned, one of the, the Marques cities where they do have to figure out a solution is London. How do you do that?'cause you can't really probably do it with a football team in London without it becoming sort of instantly tribal. Maybe you try it, but I think one of the stories to watch certainly in London around venues is this new basketball arena that's being proposed. This 15,000 basketball dedicated basketball arena. Being put together by the new owners, the new Lithuanian owners of the London Lions. So that could be you know, and venues, they want this to be world class venues as well. It can't be the sort of leisure center model that we have seen, particularly in British basketball. This has got to be in premium arenas, in premium cities for it to match up to the premium NBA brand,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Well, you are. You are looking at a former fan of the Brune Ducks.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

the Brunell Ducks,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

the Bruno Ducks were London's answer to whatever an NBA team is. it

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

the New Orleans Pelicans. What a rivalry.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

and we, we, yeah, basically, no. So, and they were a West London based basketball team that had prominence for a while. But they were, but my mind went there when you said leisure center.'cause that's, it was at Bruno University's gym. And yeah, it wasn't wasn't what the BA had in mind, but, yeah, I think for all the reasons you've just said, it's, it is, it's really interesting. I think we sort of made the point a few times to various people on the podcast. Mark Oliver, I thought was really good on this, about your feeder question and, the legal, boring but essential bit about European law versus American law and, can you move players around with the same level of freedom? The other bit is. the fans and the money. Do they want the same things? And that's a theme I think that we'll pick up on again in a minute. But the heat in European basketball is not in the cities that the money wants it to be in necessarily. The real heat is in Southeast Europe and Turkey and, and it's, it's, that's a harder sell just purely from a, a American lens.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Hmm.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

we know when they look at Europe, they want Paris, Rome, London,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. And,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

know,

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

and, and one other point that's worth reinforcing on this is that the NBA very early on in this process effectively ruled out band current NBA owners from having equity in any of these teams. So again, probably maybe one day from a sort of competitive integrity point of view, that's a sensible thing to do, but it also underlines that they are going after new money here and they believe, you know, they've gotta, they've gotta find a lot of new money at the, at the prices James was talking about. But they are looking for fresh investment in the NBA brand. Ultimately,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah. Yeah.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

make a, a

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Okay.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

suggestion just to round this

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Please do

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

for

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

the Brunell ducks are back.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

And not only do I think the

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

go ducks.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I think by by Q3 2026, I think we will have a commissioner of this new league

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Hmm.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

president, you know, a, a boss and I think Dan Reed, the the former. Thoughts, chief at Meta is absolutely perfectly positioned to be just that

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Are you working on behalf of said Dan Reed at this point, or I, is that just a,

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

it is completely speculative.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Another, another MBA executive from the past who's just left quite a top job is Dan Rosso as well, who might be looking at this kind of thing as something new and exciting. It's gonna be a lot of, they're gonna have to hire big to, to run the thing as well. So there will be a lot of plum jobs available.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

it ain't gonna be Dan Ross, Armando mate. He

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Okay.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

not more.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah, a few European, European cities.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna build a bridge, if you may, from, well, certainly that last story and. It's my story of the year is the retirement of Warren Buffet, which is Thrillingly counterintuitive. I know. But, and so we go, go back to May and it was, I mean, he's 94, he's retiring as whatever. He was chair owner, founder of uh, Barky Hathaway. and he gave a great speech at the shareholder meeting. And the quote that I just wanted to sort of pick out on is that capitalism in the new United States has succeeded like nothing you've ever seen. But what it is, is a combination of this magnificent cathedral, which is produced on the greatest economy the world's ever seen, and it's got this massive casino attached. And so the question he was raising is that what happens when the casino takes over the cathedral? And so. It's not too much of a sort of jump to work out what he was saying and then apply it to sport.'cause sport is obviously just part of, you know, is a much smaller bit of the bigger question about what we want business to be and what business is now. was having a, a lunch with Paul Rossi of Sport Business and Tuesday and it's always fun and uh, were chatting about,'cause I was at Sport Business in about sort of 2000, 2000 to 2004, so for not very long, but for four incredibly influential years. and always the question was, what's changed? And so the business bit, the arguments always were and still are. You can sort of still. Hear them, which is that sport is amateurish is, you know, bringing new dynamism, professionalism, efficiencies, all of those things. And, and, you know, reordering the way in which sport is working and all of which you could sort of understand and you could get there intellectually. And we were saying, well, if you started an organization today, where would you start if you were looking at the sports business? We used to talk about sponsorship. We talk about the, you know, brands and media companies as the sort of banks of the thing. And now they are seen as very much downstream of conversations of the finance and tech conversations. And that's just the shift that's happened over years. And it's, you know, pretty obvious. But I thought it was, there was something interesting in what Buffett was saying because. what are we protecting here and what does the money want? And it's that sort of, it's the shift from business in a broader sense to the sort of financial or financialization of the economy. And I think that we are in a, we stage where sport is actually sort of very prominent in this. And I was looking at someone today who was saying, you know, I think there are, I dunno how many funds have popped up over the last sort of year to 18 months, but it's or 80 sports specific, you know, funds that are various sizes from famous ones to people that you've never heard of, but are saying that they've got a fund. So there's a, there's a, a load of money and I think the NBA Europe story is quite of what's happening.'cause you, you've got this, and I always, call it sport by McKinsey. You've got a playbook, which is exactly what the NBA Europe will be or could be, which is. Famous names, franchises, we will sort out the fandoms later. That's just a downstream question. And I think that's a real pressure point between those two areas.'cause I think at the moment one of the questions is well what is the sports business and what do, what, what actually is happening to sport as a result of that? When I was watching, again, my person of the year is Infantino. And I think that he probably represents something, the reason that he's such a, a figure that people sort of gather around is that I think he probably represents a version or new version of what the sports business sort of is or wants to be. And he represents something in that, where it's gone from being something of. A value creation just extraction and you are taking as much money as you can and leaving as little of benefit left. And that's, that's what Buffet was getting. And you can't get a more capitalistic person than Warren Buffett. So he's quite a useful, even he is saying, you gotta be a bit careful with these banks and this finance stuff because there are downstream implications and whole point is being lost. What you value isn't the same thing as, or what society values is not the same thing as what Wall Street and the city. So getting too sort of high and mighty, I think there's something quite interesting about the way, it just made me pause with Paul the other day saying, yeah, yeah, what was I thinking? You know, because I'd never heard of sport business before I got the job there. And sort of became this thing and people kept asking what sport business? And you then starting arguing about, okay, well business can do this and is, you know, has all these advantages. And sport is always, particularly governing body sport is always couched as a sort of, pondering local council type aura around it. And that's the way the money likes to frame governing body sport. Whether that's true or not, because they want to be seen as the sort of thrillingly decisive new wave. But I think there's something in what's happened and there are so many of these NBA Europe type projects bubbling away after a while you think. What are the actually for other than just to make money for the investors?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

James Emmett.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Feel like you're onto something there, rich, because it's almost as if sports business, folk, sports, marketing folk financiers these days are sort of living in or they're, they're they're propounding, sort of the ization of sport. And what I mean by that is that, modern day sports entities. a little bit like Marvel superheroes, which are absolutely everywhere, of course. In 20 25, 20 26. In that, essentially they do two things. The day job which is what they are before they put their GLAD rags on, and the day job is prosaic and boring and run of the mill. then when they sort of spin up in a phone box and put their spandex on, they are the brand. and the brand is what financiers, et cetera think about all the time. That's what they're trying to monetize. That's where they feel like the real potential is. But these things are, you know, the Marvel universe is all about stories. These are characters and you need to have a good run of the, a good, sturdy, solid sort of day job. Characterization if you're gonna be a realistic and successful character. And so you've gotta focus on the bread and butter as well as the big, shiny brand bit, I would say. Does that make sense?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. Makes sense. And I think just, just to build Rich on what you were saying about what. What it does to sport potentially. I think there's a couple of things, and this is big, long, long term stuff, but I think there is, you could probably make the argument, somebody could write the, the dissertation on sport actual, the, the actual sport is getting worse or less interesting, more technical, more skilled, but possibly less interesting. And there's a combination of things that would be responsible for that. You know, increases in technology. This sort of quest for absolute perfectionism, golfers all hitting it well over whatever it is now. 400 yards. Is it 500 yards? Who knows? F1 cars don't break down anymore and so you're losing some unpredictability. People talk about football and, you know, back to the NBA, everybody's using the same tactics. The tactics. And, and I, I appreciate. This is, a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder, so is it getting worse or is it just different? But I do think there is something in that quest to absolutely package up, standardize, control the product that over time, over decades could lead to the sport itself becoming less interesting. I think the other byproduct is you've got, there's just way too much sport. There's just too way too much inventory. The, like it was just, as you were talking, I was just making a note at, just off the top of my head of things I've read about or seen these new breakaways, these, these new startup leagues and you know, there's an international dance league that's being funded at the moment. There's a new European wrestling league, there's a new fencing league, the hexagon cut. Paddle is doing a World series that was announced this week. I think there's a temp in bowling one. I think there's a curling one that's being developed. You've got lost count of how many rugby, rugby sevens potential new proposed series. There are, there's definitely several new basketball ones over and above the ones we mentioned already on this. So there's, there's, there's just so much being created and, you know, then you get into sort of supply and demand somewhere in your sort of McKinsey for Sports scenario. Somewhere the level of data that's available, you can find the data that makes the argument that yes, there are x number of fans who would tune in buy tickets to go and see an international dance league, but are, you know, is what's written in the spreadsheet actually. The reality of the situation. And I think in a lot of cases with these lots of startups that we have seen, you know, come to life there's a lot that don't make it. And in Grand Slam track, we're seeing this, this just in the last few days filing for, for bankruptcy in the us.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

just on that, just on that sort of, you know, a lot don't make it that there is, again, one of the things that stuck by me, we did a thing with at EY this year just about how difficult the incumbent rights holders are heart are to disrupt. And so it's quite often they will fail and that isn't without consequences. So in a sort of free market, you would expect. Bad organizations to go bust. Now, that's such a naive view. Born of a sort of 1950s economic theory saying, well, look, this is, these things are bad. They, they will disappear and be replaced by better things. Actually what happens is that both exist in the same marketplace, it doesn't happen quickly. So over, it can take It can take decades. And I fear for things like golf, if live golf, you know, and just that marketplace, it's like boxing. It's a case study. Going back to the mid 1970s, is that it ruins the sport as a whole? You've got this, these financial backed, entities going at each other. Now of course you can say, right, okay, that's what capitalism is, and that's what the, your, your framing, that competition is good and it improves things. But when there is only a finite number of players, and I think particularly in say, when you are getting to say women's football, women's rugby, women's cricket, it's very nascent, it's very fragile, and you are getting to a state where they need support. And if you're offering up new things, that will split the player base. And it's gonna be very hard to sort of reconcile those things. So I think the NBA is one story, but I think it's happening in every sport at every level. There's a part of me that says, yeah, great, okay, burn it all down, see what comes back up. But don't think it works quite like that. And I think that the market. Place doesn't really, you know, the, financiers don't really care whether it works or not. It's just a, route to revenue and some will work, some won't, but there will be consequences of the fallout.'cause you are talking about quite sort of small player bases in some cases. Let's move on. Well, James, you've got fifa, world Club, world Cup as your, your event of year and I think there's probably an easy jump from one from here to there.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. I selected this, uh. I think it's a, it's a microcosm really of a lot of trends that are going on right now, and some of them we have already touched on. But a FIFA Club, world Cup, obviously this is the first iteration of an expanded FIFA jamboree for club representatives from around the world. And it took place across the us in the summer in June. Here are the trends that I think this is a microcosm of the US as a gold mine for soccer for soccer entities right now, or the ripe old turd that's brought all the flies to the yard. It's

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Let's just take me quite, quite by surprise, quite. Take my breath away.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

say I didn't prep Rich. Uh, global broadcast experimentation and also the trend for a sort of wobbly traditional rights market. So, FIFA obviously had a lot of con confidence in this competition that they would be able to to sell packages to their usual buyers. They, they over promised really to the clubs in the lead up to this competition. It didn't come to pass. They managed to wangle a creative agreement featuring Saudi Arabia and Zone, but zone of the, the sort of global broadcaster for this. And this is a model that a lot of the streamers are looking at. The zones had a go at it. They've got some, some really very impressive numbers that they said they were gonna achieve before the tournament and lo and behold did achieve. but interesting that they have. Tackled the very complicated prospect of being a global broadcaster of something. Also a microcosm for the thing that we were talking about earlier, podcasters taking over the world and actually becoming YouTubers. They're not really podcasters, so the rest is football. The Gary Lineker thing, This was their first foray into becoming, you know, taking the show to a broadcast platform. They were on D Zone with their show. And that thing is now being replicated on Netflix for the World Cup Casa tv, who we've talked about also broadcast this in Brazil. Absolutely the, the sort of poster boy for this new wave of broadcasters. We wrote about it in the, in our newsletter last week, rich. But this is absolutely the apotheosis of something that I'm calling FIFA creep, which is FIFA as sort of battering ram against the boundaries that kind of keep the sport of football together and all the stakeholders there. So. Not only sort of land grabbing the, the calendar to, to have this expanded tournament and forcing through kind of restrictions and regulations that made it possible for them. But also quietly doing things like extending the halftime break of the final to incorporate a Super Bowl style show. don't recall any kind of discussion about whether, whether, whether that that should happen. And definitely that is sort of tampering with the integrity of the game. And now obviously we're gonna see these hydration breaks coming in at the World Cup. That that club World Cup was like the first, that was the first little creep towards that for sure. And then also at an individual level, obviously we talk about FIFA creep, it could mean an individual as well. And that particular individual is doing a great job of sucking up to Donald Trump. And it is all too easy to scoff at that and to, and to mock and to, and to criticize in general what FIFA have done in the US in North America with the Club World Cup and with the the World Cup, but the, they're getting it done. and for all of the other, most of the other football entities who will sort of clutch at pearls and, and things like that. Around this, it, they're setting useful precedents all over the shop in terms of the, and your newsletter was very good on this last, last week as well, rich. On the the, the, the amount of extra broadcast inventory that's being created with these hydration breaks is very useful in, in, again, a wibbly wobbly media market. The broadcasters can extract more value for the rights that they're buying. gonna be so difficult to row back from that.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah, I think it's really, it's, it's interesting that, so the, let's call it the American swing, you know, and one of the things that I was talking to Michael Payne about, his point is this is exactly what Infantino should be doing. They, they set up, you know, soccer in the US Club World Cup with FIFA World Cup to follow. are going to maximize the return. From that market because it's the biggest market in the world, and this is its golden opportunity. The one that they didn't in 94. So Infantino job is to manage situation that he's faced with and he's faced with Trump in the White House with everything that goes with that. Now I get that argument and I hear that quite a lot about, well, this money ultimately then flows to the game. And that's one question. You get back to why is FIFA so unpopular? You mentioned, you know, you talk to anyone who's not. I'm not talking about people in the sports business, and that's one, one layer, but people just generally FIFA is in charge of the most popular game in the world. It, why is it so unpopular? What, what is it that really annoys people and what is it that is about, you know, my person of the year is Infantino, but, and why does he wind people up? Is it something that he's doing that just goes against what they think FIFA should be doing? And again, it's, you know, the, peace prize, stuff where you think, okay, that's just nonsense. You know, that's just so, too naked, too obvious., I think one of the interesting questions though is what Kirsty Coventry will be doing and looking at and thinking, what am I gonna do here?'cause I'm gonna have to go through this in the next two years. I've got an LA a Olympics going on. That's gonna be a political hot potato for obvious

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

And how do I deal with that? And is there a difference between the IOC and fifa? Is one question that springs to mind. Is it cultural? Is it just historical in terms of the way in which the organizations have grown under bladder, under, DA's influence going back years? Is there a culture there that is different? That, is it the governance question in terms of elected against, no one all powerful sort of stateless, paling up with. Whatever dictator or autocrat is, looking to use football for a sports washing way. So there's a, it is a really difficult one heard lots of times where, about the ticket prices. People, you know, this week I was talking to someone who's saying, well, the, the, they'll sell out. So what's the problem? This is a capital society. Why should fifa, drop its prices if people are paying 10 grand to go?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

I am not completely convinced it will sell out as in terms of totally sell out. I think there are some, I think that is a very tough ask in some fast NFL style stadiums when you have this bloated group phase with, in lots of cases not particularly appealing matches between teams who simply will not be able to. Send that many fans, and I guess I, I get that there's, there's, you know, many nationalities who are resident in the United States from all sorts of places around the world. But I, I do think that is, that is not, not the work of a moment. Just back, back to your point around Kirsty Coventry, I think that if you are the president of FIFA or the president of the IOC at the moment, you absolutely need a Donald Trump strategy. And I actually think there is a case to be made that in both their situations, giving the timings of their, their big marquee events in the us both Infantino and Kirsty Coventry are adopting exactly the right strategy for their organizations at the moment, Infantino. And I think there's something a bit pantomime about that sort of FIFA as villain. Stuff. I don't see how you can be popular making the sort of, kind of decisions that a governing body of a global game, not just a ga, not just a governing body that looks after football in the UK for example. I think that's, that's, you are inevitably going to run into challenges when you're trying to do stuff on a genuinely global basis. But I think Infantino cozying up to Donald Trump is probably the right thing to do. I don't think you get to become the president of fifa, frankly, if you are not very smart and very savvy. So I don't think this is an accident. You can argue about whether he's taking it to extremes. But I think it's quite calculated. And if it is. And he'll never sell us and we'll never know. But if it is, he's playing an absolute blinder because it's working, as James said. And Kirsty Coventry is doing exactly the right thing by saying absolutely nothing. There's no reason for her to speed up a visit to the White House, to the Oval Office. That moment will come when it comes. But wait, watch, see what FIFA does with Trump over the next six months, how it all plays out. And then you move into. A very different type of event. An event that, as I think we've talked about before, is happening in Democratic California. So the, the it, I think during an election cycle. So it's gonna be a completely different game. And it might be that Donald Trump a, you know, a lame up president at that point, just isn't that interested, isn't that bothered about getting involved? And why, why why involve him more than you need to at this stage, if you're Kirsty Coventry, when there's something as complex as, as the Summer Olympic games to organize.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I feel like I've done my person. So we talked about Infantino. Let's get to a person. And James, you've got Marina Sty. Tell us why.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I think Marina Ty's had a great year. we could have had lots of different people here, but I think that what Marti has done in her second full year as the chief executive of this new-ish entity, WTA Ventures, has been genuinely very impressive. And it is worth saying that when she was appointed to this position in back end of 2023, beginning of 2024, there were a few eyebrows raised. So she came from a broadcaster. She was at Sky for a long time and headed up the now TV entity before she went to the WTA ventures. And there were definitely a few folks across the industry who e even if they didn't do it openly, questioned her ability to act as a genuine commercial driver in a new commercial entity for women's tennis. So this year has built out a really impressive team at WTA Ventures, which was always on the cards, but it is now a very strong looking unit and predominantly female

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Can you explain what WTA ventures is?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Ventures is as the commercial arm of the WTA. So in backed by CVC

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

So it's co-owned, isn't it? Co-owned by CVC.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

CVC. It was split away from the WTAI think in 2023. They are responsible for commercializing, the women's tennis tour. So sponsorships, media rights tournament fees, et cetera, et cetera. so she's built out this very impressive team, which includes Sarah Swanson Teddy Ivanova, who's a very impressive revenue getter. And Jessica Chandley, who is very highly rated at Roland Gar. A fabulous new rebrand early on in the year. Very smart, but sort of backed up that rebrand with some very impressive deal making. So one of the things people criticized Marina for question, marina for was that she. hadn't really done anything. She, she got the job then immediately had the PIF deal. So the PIF did a deal with the WTAS, they did with the A TP, but it wasn't Marina's deal that was done before she got there. She took that deal and extracted more value from it by this sort of world first. Fund. The maternity fund program across the WTA is the first professional sports league to have a fully comprehensive maternity, sort of financed maternity policy. and they if you are a, a sort of qualified WTA, player you have access to very comprehensive rights through this. This is backed by the PIF, very impressive and thing to do in an era where we're talking about the momentum behind women's sport. There aren't actually that many women's sports entities that are, laying down significant programs like this. Uh, she's done a deal with the tennis channel and just last week she has spearheaded the team that has delivered arguably the biggest sponsorship deal in women's sports history. Signing Mercedes-Benz on as the, the, the top partner for the WTA in a deal that is worth$500 million over 10 years. Pretty good going. Well done. Marina and team,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Okay, I, so it's been a while since I looked at WTA and Ventures. So you've got PIF, Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund. They are a sponsor, or are they a co-owner of it,

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

respond,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

or is it as a proxy for of one for the other? The response, and you've got CVC so, I guess my question is about the WTA more generally, and I think as the market for tennis and golf is evolving, so it's quite interesting to compare the PIF how it's shown up in tennis, in women's tennis compared to what it did with golf and men's golf and live golf. Because, and the question I sort of, asked Danny,

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

is different, isn't it Rich?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

it is different and it's evolved. And the question is, would they do live golf? Again, question mark. Is it, you know, given how much money they've spent, how divisive it's been, now they've showed up and now they've got their own news channel. They've had a rebrand themselves. So I think P'S role in the scheme of things is, is interesting. It has shifted in terms of its comms and we're hearing all sorts of stuff about the way in which it's, you know, it, the scope from neon super cities down to, you know, the Newcastle left back. So it's trying to sort of put other expectations about what it is and what it's doing in sport. And that's been a story of the last sort of few months.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I was just gonna pause a theory on the difference between the P'S approach to, to golf and, and tennis, and.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

What is it?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

do not know this but my theory is that tennis and a number of other partnerships that they have, is strategic and measurable. And they sort of, the organization is moving forward with a plan. And golf is a little bit more in the kind of chairman's choice field. Where Yassa Al Mayan is, is a it, it plays golf and enjoys it. And that was, that was a sort of deal that was done a little while ago.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Well, the, I mean, the amount of money they spent on Liv, that's a heck of a chairman's win chairman's whim, let's say hundreds of millions. They know what the LA latest figure has been, but the amount of money they've spent and lost on golf. The question about women's tennis, you know, the WTA and the A TP is its future. As the big, get bigger as people want the best versus the best. The, the majors and the Grand Slams are, are in such an elevated position that unless they have ownership of that bit, then it's always gonna be a middle of the market entity. However big Mercedes write a check for, it's doing a job for them. And I get the, you know, what's women's tennis looks like We know it's global. It's, you know, all of the questions that we all that always come out about tennis. But you can't get away from the fact that it's in the middle of the market. It is never gonna be the best product in tennis, in women's tennis, because that's where the Grand Slams are.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Well, you've got these, it's almost a cliche now, but you've got these seven governing bodies, or seven governing organizations in tennis, W-T-A-A-C-P, the International Tennis Federation, which has, you know, some, some role, some influence. And then the foreground slams. And you're right, Richard, there's a fact over the last couple of years that the certainly three of the four grand slams, if you exclude Wimbledon for a moment, are getting bigger, literally, in that they're effectively adding a third week as a sort of fan week, qualifiers week, where they are, you know, sucking up more of the calendar, more of a finite period of time. Wimbledon will go the same way in the next few years as it gets its expanded, facilities sorted out. You've then got to. Acknowledge that the WTA and a TP are, I think, in several areas, working a bit more closely together Now. People have talked for years for as long as I've been doing this about the prospect of the A TP and the WTA merging and creating a sort of super structure for the, the annual calendar, the outside of the Grand Slams calendar and hasn't happened yet. You know, complicated business may happen at some point, but there's certainly, I think I pick up a mood of collaboration amongst those seven governing bodies that probably hasn't been there for a while. They probably don't agree about everything. They are probably being, to some extent united by organizations like PIF organizations like CVC who are coming in and sort of trying to, presumably in, in you know. In both those cases, there's some, there's some thought that there is more value that could be accrued through better organization, different organization, restructuring a calendar. But it's really, really hard. It's going back to the federation question, I suppose it's really hard to disrupt incredibly established tournaments, calendars, structures of sports in order to do something better, even if everybody sort of acknowledges, yeah, it would be better to sort of do a blank sheet of paper and start again. the actual untangling of what already exists is almost impossible in a lot of these sports, in a lot of cases in tennis. I would say it's a, a prime example of that.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

So James started with marina Ty had had a great year. She's done these deals, and if I look at this from the lens of CVC, so when you look at what's one of the stories I was thinking about of, you know, story of the year is sports co the, the creation of CVCs, housing together. It's, it's various sports investments, which again is I think incredibly significant talks to my financialization question earlier in terms of what the money wants, how it's going to then use its power and money to What sport is at the top end at the sport is entertainment end of things. Now, if you look and say, right, okay, just on a, a sort of idiot's guide to CVC sports coach. You've got volleyball, you've got rugby, various bits of rugby, and you've got the WTA and other, you know, sports and sport parts of investments housed together. And the idea, the rationale behind that, which will be copied by the many funds that are sort of springing up in various sizes, which is that they're gonna be a centralization of the back office of those things. They're gonna then say, right, okay, actually, was it Marina Sty who has been at the front? You know, she's the front person for these deals, but actually it's the CVC back office that's, that's put this commercial program together and if WTA ventures starts to thrive, you've got Simon Deya in there, you've got Mark Ale. A lot of, you know, people with just heavyweights in the sports media and marketing world. If that is the play and WTA ventures is being rolled out as the sort of success poster child of how this might work, you can start to see, well, yeah, that's, that's, I can bits of this. I'm hearing a lot of people plugging volleyball as a, you know, again, a nascent sport and people come on this podcast and talk about that. Again, it's okay, I get it. Intellectually, I don't feel it. I'm not a volleyball fan, so people, other people will say, yeah, it's working, or no, it's, it's irrelevant. But all of these things are, I think, part of it. But I think the WTA I think is interesting because of the money behind it, rather than in and of itself would be my conclusion.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

And do you know what Richard? That's why Marina was my person of the year, and it wasn't my story of the year.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I've not met Marina. I'm sure she's absolutely fantastic and a, and a great executive.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

we lost control of the format?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

slightly, but I feel like I've slightly, I get, I'm gonna, I'm keeping hold of it. There, there is a my, I'm going to finish off. Well, we've both got, we've got one, I've got one to do. And David, I think you've got one to do. I'm gonna jump to mine because I've got the Caribou Cup final it's an easy jump really from what we've just been talking about. But we haven't mentioned Saudi.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

times now. It's caribou. is caribou. Unless

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Carou or Caribou?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

caribou

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I dunno if that's true. I think caribou is is like a sort of, is it the, isn't it the cow of the sea, the caribou?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

I'm pretty sure it's caribou. The energy drink.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

I know it's an energy drink, but I get us a can of caribou.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

won the Cow of the Sea Cup. We've won the Cow of the Sea Cup this year. Terrific. Now, who was playing in it?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

cow of the

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

It's, it's so long ago, Richard, who was playing in this final.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

So it's Liverpool, Newcastle. Newcastle won. My point being, it was a a moment because Newcastle had won something for the first time in ages and it was quite an interesting um,

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

thing about the PIF?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

yeah, so the money is behi, you know, where we are now in the sports washing question and we haven't got time to go into that whole palava, but I think it was quite a, a moment how do we respond to success with Newcastle? Is it something we think brilliant, fantastic. Away the lads as the Georges say. Or do we say, do you know what, this isn't anything to celebrate. This is, there is a a bigger game being played that we all very aware of, but I just thought the Caribou Cup was a, was an interesting moment and one that we should ponder on because I think it's reflective of power and money in the in the game. There was a very good book I'll point people towards oh fucking, I've forgotten his name, states of the Game, it was by

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Delaney.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Miguel Delaney, who was on the podcast earlier in the year. Recommend you seek that one out. It's interesting tale of

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

It

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Of Newcastle United

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

was also, it,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

other

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

it was also the year when PSG finally won the Champions League, wasn't it? The sort of, the Qatar project came to its

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yes.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

know, to its peak moment, I suppose. So yes, a year of milestones.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Milestones makes your heart sing. one for the underdog.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Before we finish, can I just just my person of the year, can I just throw in, uh, Vic cra Banerjee, the managing director of the hundred who oversaw, and I'm sure he would be the first to say that it, these things take a village. So lots of his ECB colleagues, rain Group, Deloitte, the counties that were involved. But, uh, this really remarkable number of 975 million pounds. The, the collective amount that these stakes in the eight a hundred franchises went for earlier in the year with a bunch of really, in some cases high profile investors from India, the Indian Premier League, Indian big business, and the us. Almost doubling, I think the target that he had laid out and, uh, really extraordinary process the actual auction process itself and just the way that he and his team managed to spin up and energize the various investors and the, the competition for these, these franchises that haven't existed for a while or a big stake in the franchises that haven't existed for too long. With no real estate involved with little history behind them. But I think he has to take a lot of plaudits for the way that he had. He oversaw that. And the work continues.'cause I think this next year is the year when those deals are all now closed. And actually we will start to see the influence of some of these owners in maybe they're trying to, maybe them trying to sort of change a few things from the inside now that they're involved in the game. But obviously a huge boon for English cricket as well, and lots of plans for how that money will be redistributed, which we should keep an eye on over the next few years. But yes, I wanted to throw his name into the hat'cause I do think that was a, a big story this year.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

It was a really big story. I think it's possibly one of the biggest, but I'm trying to remember what the name of the Manchester franchise is now. Is it the Manchester Ally there because it's something to do with

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

the Manchester,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Indians.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Indians is is that not what Oval Invincibles were? So they are now Mi London, I think.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

That's

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Um, And yeah, the Manchester Originals are also under new ownership.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

something like that?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Yeah. So you can see, you know, the multi club model alive and well in cricket as well as football. And but you know, you read through that list of investors and it is extremely impressive and they've all seen something in this, and I, I think it will be, it will be very very interesting to see how they try and, or what they try and influence and shift now that they are on the inside.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, I, I completely agree. I think looking back over what we've talked about, the stories of 26. I think we have sort of touched on some that we will come back. hundred is an extraordinary story. It's an incredible business story, and as you say, it is still evolving quickly and it will move through the next year or so. I think there's a whole load of different things. I'm not gonna start getting to predictions for 26, and that's a whole different podcast, the NBA Europe question, the FIFA World Cup and the hundred. I think are three stories that we'll come back into, you know, and, and look at time and again.'cause I just think there's just so interesting, there's so many different sort of threads to it.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

It's good, isn't it? The sports industry, it's, it's never dull is it? Every year you think it's gonna be, this is, this is gonna be a dull one. And it never quite turns out that way.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

It wasn't, it wasn't a case of, you know, looking back over 25 think, oh, you know, not much happened of

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

No.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

you know, of interest.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

we haven't mentioned at all? And that is that was no one's moment or individual or event or whatever, and that is Netflix getting into sport in a big way. And the Jake Paul bits and pieces, Jake, Paul Tyson, Jake Paul, AJ.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah. I know. I, and. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I just find I have so little, I mean, the Netflix Warner Brothers thing is, is fascinating, but just it's so big and moving so fast, it's hard to have a view on it. The other bit is, you know, we barely mentioned YouTube, which though that story sort of combines all of that, but I think we cover that so often and so regularly that it was quite a, it was quite nice to sort of not do that was my, I'cause you sort of, I, my first list had Warner Brothers down, it had Netflix, it had YouTube, and I thought, ah, you know what?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Also, I think the YouTube thing, like I think people in the sports industry have known about YouTube for some time. It just seemed to be the year when the rest of the world sort of woke up that this thing exists and is quite powerful. And on turns out it's on everybody's TV screen as well. Which I'm not sure should have been that much of a surprise. Netflix are buying up all the podcasts, of course. Richard of, have you been in touch with the folks there about about a distribution deal,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

they're all like, they're all over us trying to, you know, constantly saying, you know, will you, we need to, we need to buy up

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Well, they don't need

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Unofficial Partner

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

to

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

buy up. You see?

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

you rich. They don't need to buy Unofficial Partner. They just hire Sean. He's the king maker and he

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah. Well that's one way of looking at him, kingmaker, you say

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

maker.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

that's why he's not allowed on to have, he's not allowed near a microphone to make, to say yes to that sort of

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

but presumably he can edit himself in saying yes.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah. Yeah. If I let him near the editing controls. Right. Okay. So we're, we, are there happy Christmas to you both?

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Likewise. Happy Christmas.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

At, we'll meet again in 2026. It was fun working together. I liked, well, whatever this is called, what just happened, and we're gonna do more of those on a more regular basis through the 2026 year in the sports business. But until then, David Cushman, thank you very much for your time.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Thank you, Richard.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

And James Emmett.

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Thanks Rich. We forgot to introduce ourselves again, didn't we?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

Yeah, I know, but

James Emmett, Leaders in Sport:

Thank

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner:

yeah.

David Cushnan, Leaders in Sport:

Cheerio.