Unofficial Partner Podcast

UP452 Wedge Issues Live: The Golf Business in 2026

• Richard Gillis

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0:00 | 46:18

A live podcast recorded at MSQ Sport and Entertainment HQ in London for the launch of Callaway Golf's new brand film 'At Last'. 

You can see the film by clicking this link. 

As the golfing world looks to Augusta for The Masters, the first major event of the golf calendar next week, it was a good time to take the temperature of the business of golf with four experts from across the game.

Ben Sharpe, MD of Europe, Middle East, Africa, Pacific and India, Callaway Golf

Jason Wessely, Director of Golf, Sky Sports

Georgia Ball, YouTube Creator and PGA professional

Rob Spedding, Director of Content, Future Publishing

Topics discussed:

  • The State of the Game
  • Brand Over Product
  • The Influence Ecosystem 
  • Sky Golf's Numbers 
  • Women's Golf 
  • World Cup Overlap 



Unofficial Partner is the leading podcast for the business of sport. A mix of entertaining and thought provoking conversations with a who's who of the global industry.
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Speaker 4

Hello. Welcome to Unofficial Partner, the Sports Business podcast. I'm Richard Gillis. Today's a recording from a live event that we did last week at the headquarters of MSQ Sport and Entertainment in London, and we were there to watch the launch of Callaway Golf's new brand film. Called at last, which I'll put a link to in the show notes, and that's gonna run across Sky Sports and other places from this weekend and right through the Masters. The first major event of the golf calendar next week. One of the most exciting moments for golf fans worldwide. So it was a good time to take the temperature of. The business of golf with four people who know a great deal about that subject. So our guests were Jason Wesley, who is director of Golf for Sky Sports, one of the most influential people in the golf media. We had Georgia bor, One of the best and most talented of the new crop of golf creators who are building media businesses across social channels like TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. And we had Rob Sping whose content director Future Publishing, whose brief includes golf monthly. And then we had Ben Sharp, who's chief executive officer of Callaway Golf in Europe, middle East and Asia. So a great panel, really interesting subject and before we get going, couple of big thank yous. Chris, Greg, marketing director of calorie golf for his work and his team's work, and to Steve Barton and the guys at MSQ Sport and Entertainment. Really nice evening. Great working with them guys as always. Anyway, here it is. Cue the music.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Rob, why don't you lead us out Georgia, why don't you. This is quite exciting, isn't, it's quite a big reveal. You should have, uh, you should have walk on music. Jason from Sky. Why don't we get you out next? Got big round

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

of applause, father.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

And Ben Sharp.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Okay.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

serious. Okay. So while they're settling down I reckon there's. Quite a few of regular Unofficial Partner listens in the, uh, in the audience. But for those of you who aren't, we cover the sports business and every sport. So all the ones that you might imagine, football, basketball, the Olympics, world Cups, all that stuff, horse racing, tennis, and what you find is that you bump into each sport has similar types of challenges. There's a sort of 80 20 thing going on and. There's things like, gen Z, anxiety, you know, chasing the next audience. I dunno how old Gen Z are now. They're probably about 45 at this point, but we've been, we've been moaning and whining about them not doing what we want them to do for so long. But each sport has that. And then you've got the sort of product level, and we talk about that a lot. And by the product level, I don't mean golf clubs, I mean at the sort of sport and entertainment end. So the tours in golf PAs or the live golf PGA, the majors Solheim Ryder Cup, the sport as entertainment bit. And then we talk about what the relationship to that bit and what you might call the the pyramid, people who actually play and do the sport. And how concrete that link is. And it used to be quite a straightforward sort of conversation and now it's much less so. So we're trying to work through that. And wedge issues is our bit where we take those issues and point them at golf. So I'm gonna ask Ben just to start us off,'cause I think what we need is a sort of state of the game type thing. Your levels of optimism. I'm gonna go along the the line and I want you just to sort of paint a picture what is. The state of the golf business today in 2026 take any bit you like.'cause I know there are various parts to it and Jason will have a different answer. Georgia and Rob will have different answers, but from your lens, what do you think? What's the answer to that question?

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Golf has never been in a better place.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Good

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

ever.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Good start.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

I think from a participation perspective, from an industry perspective, from an engagement perspective we are right in the sweet spot of where we've wanted to be for years. And you look at what happened last year with, you know, it started with a season opener with Rory winning that incredible masters.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

You look at how busy golf courses are, you look at the alternative forms of the game in simulators, in driving ranges. You look at the content creators that we have, like Georgia, who are bringing golf to a new audience. And then that then means that the industry of golf, the economics of golf have never been better. So, you know, what we try to do with that video is just to remind people how cool it is to go and play again. Yeah. You know, we've had a pretty miserable winter. It's been pretty wet, but the sun is coming back and that endorphin of wanting to go and play again is something that all golfers really look forward to. And so we've tried to just catch that emotion. To go and play. And if people continue to remember that we're in the sports industry, we're in the industry of joy. Everybody who picks up a golf club and hits a golf ball is a golfer. Let's embrace that. let's champion that. And if we continue to remember that, I think we've got many more years of greatness ahead.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Okay. Jason, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Just gimme a sense from your chair every, I think, I can't think of a golf tournament that doesn't go through your lens and it appearing on television. What does it look like from where you are?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Well, we've just come off the most incredible 2025 in sky sports, golf history and, and in golf history. Full stop. I mean, can you imagine Rory McElroy completing the Grand Slam at the Masters and the way that he did in a playoff against Justin Rose? Can you imagine, uh, Tommy Fleetwood, you know, trying to get over the line on the PGA tour and then finally doing it at the tour championship? Can you imagine the, the rider cup that we had with two days of European glory followed by an absolute nail biter that went down to the very, very end, uh, the very, very wire. So, uh, we also had an incredible open championship. Which, uh, broke records for, for viewer hours as well. So many fantastic narratives in 2025. It was our best year ever and just so privileged and, and fun to be a part of. So I am very bullish, uh, about that. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a big act to follow, tough, act to follow, but I'm very bullish about, uh, the, the state of Gulf. We've set that up. Um, as a fantastic sport to follow. We've introduced, uh, uh, viewers and followers to, to the Game of Golf through those amazing narratives. So we're in really, really good shape. And I think, uh, in 2026 we've got some fantastic things to look forward to, including an amazing, portfolio of women's events, including the Solheim Cup, uh, in September in the Netherlands for the first time. Everything leads to that. And the women's game is really, really flying as well. We mustn't forget, how many amazing athletes there are, uh, in the women's game and how many amazing British athletes there are in the women's game too. So I'm very bullish. I'm very, proud to be a part of it and, uh, yeah, very positive.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Okay, fantastic. Right. There's a good spot to talk to. Georgia. Georgia. I'm a huge fan of the stuff that you do really, really. Great for just the presentation, but also just the clarity of the instruction and again, just it's the same question, but just give us a sense of, as people will project onto you, we're using you as a sort of almost a proxy into that sort of creator world golf creator, but you're a PGA pro who then started in 23. Give us a, a sense of the journey and where, what your answer to the state of golf is now.

Georgia Ball

Yeah. For me, I mean, just watching that video that gave me goosebumps, I think a lot of us can say the same, and this time of year we were laughed before saying it's the panic before the new season, but it's also the excitement A lot of us haven't played throughout the winter, so it's coming back together and standing on that. And playing with friends again and, and getting the club up, blowing the cobwebs off, which is the most exciting part for most of us. But from, from my perspective, it's just fantastic to see, as we say, the, the growth of the game and the passion behind it, the positivity and, you know, the, the friendships that are made for the within there as well. So, um, it's fantastic for me to see on social media as a content creator and to, to push that as well, just to, to. Just to k keep, keep growing that game and the excitement. This is, this is the time of year now where we can get back out there and play.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic, isn't it? Is, is who is the audience from your point of view? Is it male? Female. Just give us a sense of it.

Georgia Ball

Yes. My audience is everyone really, um, split right down the middle. Um, so being able to reach everyone within golf is fantastic and that is my ultimate goal is to, to keep showing the positive light, keep growing the game and keep telling everyone how much of an amazing sport it is to play.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Okay. Right. Rob, So golf monthly, I mean, it's. A brand that I know I used to read.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Sean was the publisher of, golf Monthly in the nineties. So it survived the internet and it survived Sean's management.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah, I can't,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

two massive macro headwinds as I, I like to call Sean a macro headwind. I. give us a sense of it.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

I can't comment on Sean's management way before my time. Yeah. I mean, the, the fact that golf monthly, I mean, it's not just survived, um, the internet, it's thriving thanks to the internet. We sometimes forget that it's been around for so long. Way before Sean, you know, 1911. It's been, it has been going over a century. And it's growing. It's been growing. It's in growth. And we are really lucky because we, we sort of reached. All of the touch points, of the brands. You know, we, we have passionate people who just love buying golf products. We have passionate people who love watching tour golf. We have passionate people who love playing golf and. You know, there are headwinds. We, we have to admit to that, particularly in the media, but at the moment it's really strong. Our audiences are really solid. I come from a cycling background and I've seen similar similar sort of. Patterns there, particularly after COVID and growth there. But cycling in the, in the early 2010s when Bradley Wiggins was winning lots of things and people were getting into the sport. And I'm a newish golfer, I'm an improving golfer and you know, like Georgia, the Callaway sort of, the visuals there, it just makes, it sort of reminds me that being on a golf course is a great place to be, isn't it?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

It sort of, so Ben, you all remember this, but we used to say about 10 years ago, people would say cycling is the new golf. And there was a sort of, uh, this whole thing about this is going to, it's gonna take over. You don't remember this, do you?

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Yeah, I do. Yeah,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

yeah, yeah. So you're looking at me qui quizzically as though I just made that up. I wanna talk about the, there's a, there's the product bit, which there's lot of people in the world, people in the room who are the retail end. What shapes my decision now to buy golf clubs? Just gimme a sense of the journey because. Looking at that. I mean, that was, there was, there wasn't a club in sight there. Which again is interesting. You look, there's a brand thing going on there. But just take me into the, how does it work now?'cause I think it involves everyone else on the panel to an extent, but I'm interested in you, you are looking across all the levers that you can pull.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Yeah, no, I think, um, if I knew the answer to that 100%, then yeah. We would have a hundred percent market share, which we don't. So a lot of that is a subjective opinion on that. Partly I buy golf clubs myself because I don't want to wear Lycra and go on. Nor

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

do I, I dont wanna, I don't wanna see you in Lycra either.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

But I think, you know, as businesses mature and as industries mature, the same message about product can disappear amongst noise. And so I think, I believe that you have to stand to something more than just product. You have to stand for a purpose about who you are, and any brand that you have where it's a car or a piece of clothing or shoes should give the person who's wearing it or using them, sort of just an extra skip in their step or an extra level of pride in terms of. Who they are and, and they're associated with that brand. So I think there's an opportunity to, to stand for something that's beyond product. We believe at Callaway, we make the best product. We'll take the Pepsi challenge, but when Ely Callaway started the company, he started the company'cause he wanted people to enjoy the game and he wanted to build products so people could enjoy the game. And it's a broad church from the absolute beginners to the tall players. And so I think if we promote that message that not only do we make products, but we more importantly that we stand to allow people to enjoy the game. And we love the game and we have a passion for everything around it. But when you are around us, you feel those endorphins and you feel like you want to be part of our gang. I think. That's a slower build than just saying, here's a product. But I think that's a journey that people hopefully will wanna be part of, and then we will carry them with us through their golfing career.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

So there's a, there's a question. I mean, on our podcast we talk, people come on and talk about, Nike and Adidas have shifted the way in which they've, you know, they went the performance marketing route. They went very to the bottom of the funnel. They started to target specifically at that end. And then they went moved to storytelling and brand and they forgot what excited people at the end. Yeah. It's a sort of similar story. Is that, am

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

I

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

projecting

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

onto it? It seems so easy. You think about the great commercials that you've seen or the great brands that you've been associated with. They talk about a feeling and they try and evoke that emotion and the feeling through the work that they do. They don't say Buy this rich. They say, come with us on this journey and be part of us. And so, you know, a TV spot or a commercial or a social feed is just one part of the mix about who we are trying to be, which is, you know, your partner, your soulmate, your sort of your, your brother or sister on the journey that is this great thing. We're, we're in, we're in the industry of joy. Right?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

What's the, what's the relationship between, so I'm looking at these three as as sort of parts of the answer to that, but has that shifted?'cause it used to be a very television. Based answer, presumably. Yeah. And very print based in the days of, in the days of Sean, but, and now it's not. Just gimme a sense of where the priorities might lie.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

So it, it's making sure that these are very important partners to us. Um, yeah. And we will continue to work with them because they have an audience and an engaged audience and they have a different audience. So we can speak to people in different ways. And so that will always be, be an important part of our mix. How we use that and how we bring Georgia people like Georgia into the mix is also important. But it's also what we do around that as well, because some people might say, oh, you know, Callaway can do it'cause they can spend money with golf monthly or can spend money with Sky. So it's also about how you, you turn up and the touch points that you have. And so there's two other things that I'm very proud of. A year ago, um, we worked with a PJ and we decided to sponsor the club professionals tournament series.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Because the club professional is the conduit between the golfer and, and where they play, and the research says they're the most trusted people. Couldn't believe this. Georgia PJ professionals are very trusted. Um, they're the most trusted person in the ecosystem of golf. And so if you can win that club professional, then you can win the disciples that they have in, in their club. And one of those club professionals who's a very good friend of mine 30 years ago, started a thing called The Wee Wonders. And so, not only do we sponsor tour players who play on Sky, not only do we sponsor to, you know, to tournaments where the club professionals, but we wonders 30 years ago was an idea about trying to bring fun tournaments to five to 12 year olds. And, and doing something just to hopefully give them a foot up or give them something to go and enjoy. Now, Brody Goods in the audience. Who's Alistair Goods? Son and he's now running that and we've entered into a long term arrangement to try and bring that to more people. And alumnis of that, of Max Fitzpatrick who won last week, Aaron Ry, you've got Eddie Pepper, you've got, you know, loads of people who've done that, but you've also got people who may not make it at tour, but have just had fun with their mom and their dad, or their grandma and their grandpa watching them. And so that's just all part of the mix. So Sky Golf monthly, social media's important, but we've also gotta be true to who we are. Which is making people enjoy the game.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Okay. Right. Georgia, are you, are you aware of the influence that you might have on that sort of question? Obviously you've got influence in terms of how people, they approach the game. You're bringing people in, you're bringing new people into the game, but there's also a, there's a, there's a product question there. Do you ever get people say, wanting advice in terms of, because obviously as a PGA pro you would, but I wonder if in your situation now that's still the case.

Georgia Ball

Yeah, one of the most common questions that I get asked is, what clubs should I buy from beginners who have never, who have never held a club before to an experienced golfer who just needs that level up. So, you know, for me, it's always using the product that you, you rely on and, and that works best for you. So yeah, I, I think it has a, a huge impact on, on what, uh, you know, products people buy and, and also, you know, you see the likes of the long form YouTube, you see the short form. There's lots of different ways of watching social media and I think they all have a huge role to play in it.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

And the, in your previous role as you're at Bedale, as you know, as the pro, how are they faring? How is that bit of the jungle working? Because I, in my club there, there, there's the shop, there's the traditional, you know, I'll go there. I might buy the club there. They have expanded their services hugely. I'm just wondering what, how pros have responded to the environment of. The internet, I guess is the question.

Georgia Ball

I think a lot of people adapt to it in different ways, but I also think it, a lot of people use it to, you know. A lot of golf clubs local to me, and I know, um, global as well. They use it to, to help not only with the pro shop, but with membership and, and to drive people to their course and also events and different ways of, of growing the game. We see lots of golf clubs and golf pros encouraging, you know, meetups of, um, for families and juniors to play. So I think, uh, a lot of people have adapted to it and used it in such a positive spin to, to help promote, you know, their, not only their shop, but their course as well. And it's fun to see that. It's fun to see in the summer when. Courses have, you know, when, when I was a junior, we didn't really have like a, a summer golf event, but it's so interesting now going into into the, the new season, seeing these pop up and I think, wow, I would've loved that when I was younger. So, uh, yeah, I think it's adapting in different ways, but it's playing such a huge, huge positive role.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Rob, what do you think about that question? So there's this sort of the supply chain question.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Where do you fit into it and how has that changed?

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Uh, that's a really good question. I mean, on a really sort of base level, we obviously. We provide information for people. And that's information from, I mean, it is buying, buying advice. We review products, we tell people what the best products are and send them to our partners. But we also give training advice. We give, we've obviously got the top 100 courses, so we're encouraging people to go and try new golf courses or old golf courses. We, we give betting advice. You know, we're, I suppose we're sort of. Uh, we've, we spent over a century building up trust, and I think that's, that's the sort of important thing, particularly in the internet age, AI age, that's hard to say. But we've built up trust and our, our users and our readers trust us to give them the best advice to make their experience of golf better. And that's on every level. So where we sort of sit in a, where we sit in a supply chain, I mean, I'd like to say golf monthly is both the sort of welcome mat to golf. Strange term, but you know, so new golfers can come to us to. And get an, get a lot of information and learn about golf and learn about themselves, but so can experience golfers and it can be golfers who wanna buy things or it can just be golfers who just wanna read about how to chip out bunkers. So I dunno if that answers the question, but that's kind of, sort of how I, I I see us as, uh, it's almost like some something for everybody.

Georgia Ball

Yeah.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

And, and again, you know, it's. Buy golfers. For golfers, it is about joy. You know, we want people to enjoy golf. We want them to get the most out of golf, and by helping them do that, enabling them to do that, they then go to clubs. They get a coach, they buy product, but mostly they play golf.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Good answer. Jason, what job does golf do for Sky?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

How long is your podcast? Uh, well, it does a lot of. Incredibly important things. First of all, it, uh, provides entertainment and value for our, for our customers. Second of all, it uh, obviously drives revenue through subs, through ads, through, uh, sponsorship, through partnerships. It provides a very important platform for cross promotion of other sports and entertainment as well on Sky. It provides us a, a great platform to talk about women's sport because women's golf is so strong. It provides us content for our digital and social and Sky Sports news, uh, channels. It provides, uh, great touchpoint internally. Golf provides links different, uh, parts of the business, so we have a, you know, great, um. B Tour collaborative, uh, golf day, uh, where we, we meet and discuss you know, sky, VIP, um, lots of different, uh, business touchpoints that golf provides that for. And, um, yeah, it does, does all those massively important things.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

What, what was the impact of, so it may, it moved from how you'd call'em vertical channels, sky one, two and three two golf, giving golf its own channel. What was the impact of that and what, what. Effect. Does that have on, on your job? Is it, is it a sort of interesting move and at the time people were wondering how it was gonna play out? What has been the impact of it?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

I think extremely positive because what customers want is a destination for sports. They want clarity on where to find, uh, discoverability, where is the gulf, where do I find that? Um, and in the old world of, of, of sky. Sports one, two, and three. It could have been any of those channels and you had to find it. Now, you know, you could go to 4 0 6 and and find live golf and it's pretty much all day, every day. Some, some golf content. So it's been very positive. And equally we have a channel called Main Event Channel, which is the best live offering at any one time. Often because, um, especially the PGA tour golf at the end of the day and often DP World Tour Golf at the start of the day there's no conflicting, um, big sport at that time. And golf gets a, a lot of main event coverage. So you can find your golf on Main Event, you can find your golf on Sky Sports Golf and. We also have other channels to surface our golf content, linear channels, Skyport Plus and Sky Sports Mix as well, because there's often, you know, four or five golf tournaments all, all in one week. So we have to find that place. But, um, we use Skyport Golf Channel as the main hub to point our. Golf customers to all the other, uh, options and, and choices they can have.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

So, so may ask a question because we were, we started talking about how great golf is and how buoyant golfers you measure how good golf is. And if you talk about that final day at the Masters, how would that rank as a show relative to other sports on your platform?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Well, I, I could. I could pluck out the numbers for you because the, the masters had a reach of 7.5 million viewers. It peaked at 1.85 million on the Sunday and. 37% of the total television audience was watching Rory win the Masters on that Sunday, which is an incredible amount. It also brought in over 1.5 million viewers during the week that had never watched golf up until that point.

Question 1

Wow.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

And it, uh, and the Rider Cup did similar, similar numbers. It, it, it, it broadened the, the appeal, 1.8 million. Female viewers, uh, watched the Rider Cup. It was, uh, up 35%, uh, on female viewers. And similar one, one over a million, under 30 fives watched the, uh, the Rider Cup. Um, and it peaked at 2.29 million, which was the highest peak in the history of. Of, of golf on Sky Sports. So, um, an incredible year.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Wow.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

And, and it was an amazing year, but throughout Sky Sports golf's journey and I've, I've been. With Sky for, for, for coming up to 32 years. I've been leading the golf team for 20 years. But it, it continues to grow. We've been very lucky with a Tiger Woods story. Very lucky with a McElroy story. Very lucky with the Ryder Cup story in Europe's dominance. Um, and we continue to innovate and push and give our customers the choice of where to watch the golf and how to watch the golf. And, and their. They want to know where to find it, and they want to know that it's being, it's being innovative and growing and being different every year.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it? I mean, in terms of the, I'm a Spurs fan. Bloody hell. That's all I want to say. It's not, isn't like a Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm Richard and I'm a Spurs fan.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

I'm also a Spurs fan, so yeah. Thanks. I should, I've never said

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

that out loud. This is quite nice. This is sort of camaraderie. What was I gonna say? No, the point was that because of that, my, my, the Premier League is waning in interest from my point of view. Um, I'd love to get golf than just golf. Is it always gonna be bundled, do you think? Can you see a time where you can, I could say, right, okay. I want everything you do, but I don't want everything else. Do you think it's, Al Golf is always gonna be within the, the bigger bundle at Sky.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

I mean, you, you can get just golf, but the factors that most of our customers want, the whole, sky Sports package.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

I've got one more question, Jason before we move on, which is about, and it's about the women's game. So there's a scheduling question. We had Nikki Doucette on from WSL Chief, you know, chief executive of Women's football, the league, main league in the UK in England. And the question was. They're wrestling a bit with scheduling and putting games on. They've got the Premier League, which is this big monster that they either take on head to head or they try and avoid. Do the tours the LPG or the Ladies European tour come to you for advice in terms of where and how it should show up on television?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Yeah, to a point, yes. It is, it is one of the biggest headaches of, of, I mean, it's a good problem to have. We, we have,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

yeah.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Great women's. Lineup this year of for, of women's golf. So it's a good problem, but equally it does give us a headache of, of, of where to put, um. Women's golf up against men's golf and how to, how to, you know, make that equation work. We are, we are committing to prioritizing the women's majors this year and we are committing to, uh, give the Soul home cup. It's, it's time in the sun, definitely. And we have ways of doing that and it's about giving customers choice because. Not everybody will want to watch the women's major. Some people might want to watch the Zero Classic that week, or the Scottish Open that week. So it, it's up to us to give our customers choice, but there should be no doubt that we, that sky are prioritizing, uh, women's majors and we will, uh, you know, make sure that our customers know that, that that's very important.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

So that's a marketing prioritization. It's not a scheduling one.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Is what you mean.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah. Georgia, what'd you think about that question? About where the just the, the job of getting more people watching women's golf. I

Georgia Ball

think for me, just from personal experience, I've, I've been so fortunate to, to be at women's golf tournaments and just to turn up and, and now to see the amounts of people that are there watching and supporting is fantastic. You know, being in within that environment and, and seeing the amounts of people that are walking the fairways there every day to support is, is amazing. So, yeah, I think it's hugely important to, to be able to support that and be able to watch that as well.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

There's a question in terms of just where, how it shows up from your job, the, the women's game, and just give us a, a picture of that.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

I mean, it's, it's a massive opportunity, but it's also we've got to commit to women's golfers as an industry. You know, it's interesting, I think when Fred Couples was voted into or elected into the World Hall of Fame. One of the speeches was about how how few people had actually really moved the needle. You know, Arnold Palmer had moved the needle. Yeah. Savvy Ballas, Fred Couples, tiger Woods. I think the next person who's really gonna move the needle in golf is gonna be a woman. And I think we've got to. Find that person. We've got to embrace that person, champion that person, and champion the whole movement.'cause there's a lots of, you know, if you look at the participation of the game, who we're selling our golf clubs to, we're selling more golf clubs to women than we used to be. They should be part of our ecosystem. In different parts of Europe, actually women over index in men. If you go to Germany, I think it's 60% versus 40%. So it's a really important part. And again, we talked about being a broad church that includes everybody.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

It's the, the equation's not that simple from a broadcast point of view. Also because women watch the biggest events, so they'll wa women tend to watch the Rider Cup and, uh, and Rory winning the Masters. Our data suggests that, women don't necessarily watch women's golf. It's the, the men watch women's golf.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Um, so that's an interesting conundrum. So I think it's, it's about golf as a whole, appealing to women and being welcoming to women. That's the key. Golf as a whole, not necessarily women's golf on television.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Georgia, inevitable question. What is it welcoming? From your perspective, what do you, what's your lens into that question?

Georgia Ball

Yeah, I mean, it's, in my opinion, the best sport you can play. Um, again, from my previous experience, I always say when I was a junior, I was, uh, the only female golfer and, and the support I used to have was. Was incredible from the juniors all through the members. And um, yeah, it's super welcoming and if we can just keep growing, showing that and showing how welcome and supportive it is, then the more we'll just keep growing the game.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Well question on, on future in women's golf?

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah. I mean, um, as Ben said, it's, it's an opportunity. It's definitely an opportunity for us. We've. Gone into it in a, in a big way, just through, employing a brilliant women's golf editor in Allison Root, uh, who does a fantastic job, has a lot of great con contributors, but I think it's always been, it's in the specialist media and I've been in specialist media for nearly 26 years now. It's always been a difficult, difficult circle to square or a square circle, but, um, is getting more female readers to, in, in particular magazines that are usually employing lots of men. Yeah. Uh, websites employing lots of men. It's about being better at representing. Female golfers on your magazines and on your websites, and we've still got work to do on golf monthly. There's, there's no denying that we still have to work harder at it because we want to build that audience because it's a valuable audience. It's a, it's a, it's an audience we want. So we're, we're not there yet, but we, we need to do better. But we want to do that by having more female writers, more female product testers, more female coaches writing for us. You know, that's, that's really important to us.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

So it's an ecosystem question is the, is the problem, isn't it? I mean, it's, it's one of those things that,'cause we talk about this a lot and it never you, you keep bumping into, there are structural questions about audience or just about the preponderance of men in golf that. Don't want women in there.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Yeah. I mean it's, it's like anything, isn't it? I think that that's one of the great things about the boom in social media, golf, YouTube, golf, Instagram golf, is that for a very long time, it is really easy for someone like me to find someone like me to tell me how to play golf, what to buy in golf. You know that, that's really simple. Same in cycling, same in football, same in in any sport. And what I think social media has done to a certain extent, has democratized the, the, the sort of the playing of golf. So it's really easy. It doesn't matter who you are, you can find someone who you feel. Represents you playing golf, telling you how to play golf, or telling you how to get better at golf, enjoying golf, telling you that you are welcome at golf clubs. You know that. I think that's really important because, you know, I'm a reasonably new golfer. I am a middle-aged man. I'm probably quite a good golf club demographic, but still the, the first step through a golf club door as a non-member is actually quite. Quite frightening. Frightening is probably a bit wrong, actually. A bit strong, but, you know, it's, it's, you know, it, it's quite daunting. It's daunting, isn't it? Yeah. Because you, you will go in thinking, oh man, I'm not very good at golf. All these really good golfers are gonna be looking at me, laughing at me. They are gonna chuck me out because I swear a bit too much when I play. You know, that kind of stuff. That's probably true. But as soon as you get in, uh, in my experience and it, and, and I've been lucky, thanks to Golf Monthly, to, you know, I've got my lo my club that is a very welcoming club. Feels like a very welcoming club, but I've been to some very much grander golf clubs where I just think, I just, I don't, I don't belong here, but when once you get through the door, you're just golfers and, and I think that is the good thing about. People like Georgia is, they're saying everyone's a golfer. Anyone who's got a go, who picks up a golf club, hits a golf ball, whether it's on a driving range, in pitch, you know, in a with a pint of beer or on the first tee is a golfer. And they're welcome. And it's a community, it's a passion thing. It's, you know, I think a golf club is a, is a gateway drug or a golf bag is a, a good gateway drug to a whole new life experience, I think, isn't it? Yeah. And sort of, um, a a and discovering more about yourself, that sounds quite, um, quite deep for me, but

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Right. I'm gonna very open to questions. Have you got any questions? Just shove your hand in the air. And I will send Sean your way. And I'll, uh, give you a, give you a microphone.'cause if you've always gotta speak into a microphone for this to work.

Question 1

Thank you very much. Golf has to evolve and sport, sorry, sport has to involve to sort of survive and through the ages, I guess those strong sports have. Uh, I'm old enough to remember Kerry Packer, uh, and cricket, uh, and what it did for cricket with the colorful clothing and the one day internationals that followed and now it's evolved into T 20 and what have you. We've, we've got the issue with Liv at the moment, uh, and it's bringing a different dimension, uh, to, to the game of golf. However, probably history would say at some stage it'll cease. Uh, I think we'll wait and see, but you know, that history would probably tell you that. However, the interesting thing is, what, in your opinion, have lived brought to the game that, uh, the PGA or DP World Tour could consume like cricket did with Kerry Packer to help evolve the game?

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

So the good and the bad of Liv, basically, uh, I mean, what, what has Liv brought? Um, I think Liv as contracted players and we arguably have an unsustainable financial model, uh, at the top of, uh, men's professional golf. So they've kind of. Solve that issue, although they've obviously rewarded them very highly. They've introduced a team, uh, element to, to golf a regular team element, which some golf fans like, not, not everybody, but some golf fans, like, they've. Uh, really focused on their live event model. And they've created a, a very fun atmosphere, although you could argue that's also quite male heavy and quite sort of bey and quite leery. But it's, it's a very successful live event model. So all those things are, are good things. And I think, you know, innovation as you say in, in sport is good and. Unfortunately, the structure of men's professional golf has meant that, um, players, um, have like resisted a lot of that change in innovation. Part of that is the resisting of, you know, mixed formats as well. What would've lived looked like if it had been a mixed format. That would've been a really interesting uh, project. But. The biggest thing I, I think that outweighs all those positives. It's, it's divided the world of golf and it, and it means that you can't watch Bryson and Terrell and John Rahm play every week on the PGA tour in a really competitive environment. And that's the biggest sadness I think. But yeah, it's, it's made the world of golf. Think of these different innovative uh, elements.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Yeah, I mean there's two things really. I think, uh, we talked about the team aspect. I think that's where golf at the Olympics missed a trick. Cause I don't think the professional golfers cover the Olympic gold medal as much as they do the green jacket or the claret jug. But they would if they were playing for their country. And so that actually would bring a team element to it every four years. That would've been amazing to be part of. But they take live and whether it's sustainable or not, what it has done is it has said that maybe there's another way. And if you take our sport, we, historically we have been good at telling people what they can and they can't do, how they dress, how they show up, how they speak. You know, the restrictions we've made are on clubs and ultimately in every industry, whether it be. Viewership or whether it be participation, it's the person who's viewing or the person who plays, decides what's the sustainable model going forward. And if you just, you know, in the PO we've historically said golf is measured by rounds, played, it should be measured by balls. Hit because there are a lot more balls hit now off the golf course than there are on, on the golf course. But it doesn't mean it detracts from it. Royal County down is one of the greatest places you should play, but people who play there aren't necessarily the people who go to Topgolf or a simulator in Korea. And just broadening the opportunity for people to go and hit a golf ball is gonna be good for us all.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

I think in terms of, just to build on your question, which is the, again, it's a question you get quite a lot across other sports, which is the sort of, there's a resilience of the. Incumbent rights holder. Now, whether that's a good thing or not is so the PGA tour's response. When Liv first came through, we had Sean Bratches on our podcast. He was one of the sort of architects of it, and it was quite interesting listening to, there was a lot to like about it. To Ben's point, there was quite an interesting, you know, whether it was teams or whatever, there was a, a few misses. Just the execution of it, I didn't, you know, I don't like, but the. The actual product itself was quite interesting. But then when you see, you see in rugby, you see in athletics, you see in the European Super League new things, it's really hard to sort of disrupt a, a mature global sport, you know? And it's really difficult to, to get the incumbents out if that's the aim. But, you know, even with Saudi's money, you know, I

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

think if I could just say, say one thing, you know. Seeing the best players, playing against the best players

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Is amazing in every sport. And that's why the majors have taken a leap above.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

Other, other competitions. And we've got to try and find a way as an industry to try and make that happen. The other thing around teams is you support teams'cause it's in your soul. I mean, Tottenham Hotz were unfortunately are in your soul, but you'll continue to support them. But if it's a country or or something that you've grown up with that makes sense. If it's a manufactured team, I think that's hard to really follow. And so what we want from an individual sport is that gladiatorial battle to see who's best or you want your team to win. And I think that's magnetic in viewership.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah. Quite interesting the hundred, isn't it as a, as a sort of thing because that appeared and team brands, I think you're right, are the hardest bit I thing to crack because you get the major events and in, but it's the day to day, week to week thing.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

The key with those, those formats though, is that they're complementary. Not Not conflicting.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Uh, and, you know, live conflicts with all our other golf and the, the main, the mainstream golf.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Whereas other innovative forms of, of other sports complement it

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

going away. TGL doesn't conflict.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Exactly. T-G-L-T-G-L is, is complimentary because it's Mondays and Tuesdays and, you know, it doesn't, doesn't conflict.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

For better or for better or worse, I guess Liv has sort of reminded us that professional sport golf is actually an en entertainment product. And even just the spats between the, the Liv golfers and the, the tour golfers, it's entertaining. Not in, not necessarily in a good way, but, but, but it's all but beef. Yeah. But it's also, I suppose, maybe lifted golf out of just the golf conversation because. It, it, it garnered wider coverage. And then, and then I think, can the PGA tour look at that and think, oh, how do we, you know, what, what do we do to, not that, not that it isn't entertaining, but how do we make it even more entertaining? Not in a sort of, um, loud music kind of way, but even just make the, make the actual, the, the action more, increase the jeopardy. Uh, uh, you know, I'm, yeah.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

But you know, we started today about. The love of the game. Yeah. And really goosebumps about playing. There's a danger right now that it's rich guys fighting with richer guys about who gets the biggest check when they win a golf tournament. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'd much rather you not do that. Give another load of money to Brody Goode, get wee wonders and sky sports, and see the joy of the game again.

Rob Spedding, Golf Monthly

Agree.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

You name I like, that's Churchillian ending to a, uh, podcast. I like that. But I might keep that in. Yes, Mike, right. You're gonna have to lean or I'm gonna have to lean over.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

It's a quick one. Football World Cup this summer. Is it an opportunity or a threat to golf in the uk? Is that me? I think, um, I think retailers, Terry's in, in the room and he would say that when you know, England are playing football, that there, there is a downturn in people playing the sport. So, um, I'd have to take his word for it'cause he knows a lot more about the retail business than, than I do. But at the same time, with the timing of it. I think there's an opportunity to play and then watch and then you've probably got more hang time in the golf clubs and so probably this year with the timing, it's an opportunity.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Yeah, I mean, I think the World Cup final, uh, which England will hopefully be in is on the Sunday of the open on July the 19th. Uh, in the evening. So it's a great opportunity to. Play golf in morning, watch golf in the afternoon, and then watch England win the World Cup.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

That's, that's gonna be a long day, isn't it? That is gonna be a long day. Put that in the, uh, in the diary. Right. Any others just before we finish? Yes, Belinda. Right.

Question 2 Belinda Moore

I was lucky enough to be at the launch of the Women in Golf Charter, um, several years ago, and it's been great listening to you all tonight talking about the growth of the women's game. How much more though do we need to do to have more women in senior leadership roles? In golf across the board, not just on the, on the course.

Ben Sharpe, Callaway Golf

We, I mean, we very proud and pleased that we, we run a meritocracy at Callaway and in the last two years? Finance director is a woman. Our operations director is a woman. Our head of marketing is a woman. We've got the first woman sales rep in the uk and we are hiring people on their ability rather than you know, anything else. And so, it has been a closed shop historically. It's opening. But so long as we make sure that we deal with people on their merits, then I think PRI will rise. And I think there are some really, really talented people who want to be in the golf industry.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Well, we need to do a lot of work, is the, is the answer to the question. And in the spirit of you've gotta see it to be it. You know, we're, we, we put talented women on screen, on Sky Sports and we have talented women as part of the production team on Sky Sports Golf. And that has been something I've been very proud of. Is female participation in Sky Sports golf, both on screen and behind the screen? From a leadership point of view, yeah. A a lot, a lot needs to be done. I think a lot is happening, and it is a gradual change. But yeah, a a lot of headroom.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

Okay. Right. Thank you very much. We show a, a round of applause for our planet.

Jason Wessley, Sky Sports

Alright, good work.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner

And I'm gonna hand back to Chris, but I just wanna say a quick thank you, first of all to the team at Callaway. Brilliant. And also to MSQ as ever. Best in class, right? Cheers.